two for the price of one!

[elbandito]

I went out this morning before work to buy an MD421 but ended up snagging a pair of art m5s instead, as the two together cost a little less than the single sennheiser. Now I've finally got a pair of ribbons to mess around with... I plan to try them as overheads first.

The downside is that the two two sides are very different-sounding in response, so I won't be able to use them in an m/s array or for a blumlein setup.

I'm sure at least a few of you have used these mics in the past - how do you like them?

 

[xaudia]

Hi!

"The downside is that the two two sides are very different-sounding in response, so I won't be able to use them in an m/s array or for a blumlein setup."

Are you testing on headphones whilst speaking? If so, then the difference in tone comes from phase cancellation between the headphones and your real voice. Try flipping the phase when you turn the mic around - it should now sound the same.

Those mics have a fairly symmetrical motor and should be the same front and back, but with the polarity reversed.

Cheers

Stewart

 

[elbandito]

Good advice about the listening test. I will keep this in mind.

Are you sure about the motor design? All the literature I've read since buying these mics says that theyre asymmetric.

 

[moresound]

I always have a favorite side to my ribbon microphones - one side seemingly sounding better than the other.

 

[xaudia]

Are you sure about the motor design? All the literature I've read since buying these mics says that theyre asymmetric.

I don't know that exact model but was assuming it is the same as the other China mics. There could be some extra padding on one side I guess. But it is supposed to be figure-8, so can't see why they would do that.

Can you point to some of the stuff you've read that says the two sides are dissimilar? Would be interested to read it.

Cheers!

Stewart

 

[elbandito]

" The asymmetrical figure-8 pickup pattern has an extended sweet spot on the rear face of the microphone allowing the recording to accurately reproduce the natural space and ambient reverberation of a good sounding live room."

This is from the ART website. Here's the link: ART Pro Audio

You mentioned that there may be some padding? Have you any ideas on how I can mod the mics so they are more symmetrical and can be used for blumlein, etc?

 

[mixsit]

".. asymmetrical ...extended sweet spot ..

What'a load. Gotta hand it to some manufactures.
Nothing like nice vague useless spec info to get you going.
symmetrical...
http://www.cascademicrophones.com/PDF/FAT_HEAD_Locked.pdf
Ribbon Microphones - Cascade Microphones FAT HEAD
Royer will say their front is higher SPL, back brighter'.
The second part here, (like Royer) goes into some of the front-to-back asymmetrical cautions and differences.
Award-winning microphone engineering from Michael Joly
Looks like your 'front may be 'the back'..?

(..actually I'm glad you brought it up. I haden't thought about it lately and totally forgot about the 121's back SPL restrictions.

 

[xaudia]

Interesting stuff... lies, damn lies and frequency plots...

What'a load. Gotta hand it to some manufactures.

I'm tempted to agree with that!

If you were close I would say pop round and we'll measure it. One way to tell would be to have a look. (Carefully) pop off the grills and take some photos for us all.

Some ribbons are definitely asymmetric - Reslos have magnets at the back, RCA 77DXs and varacoustics have acoustic trickery behind, some of the Royers , Cowley and Tripps etc. have things at the rear. Shure 330s have funnels to make them (mostly) cardioid, Beyer 260s have resonant chambers and are quite hypercardioid...

The China mics are usually pretty simple designs - ribbon between two neodynium magnets, basic transformer, different degrees of blast protection.

If one side has more blast protection then it may sound different front to back. This may be removable.

 

[xaudia]

... from the ART website

The asymmetrical figure-8 pickup pattern has an extended sweet spot on the rear face of the microphone allowing the recording to accurately reproduce the natural space and ambient reverberation of a good sounding live room.

Translating from market-ese.... could 'asymmetry' in this case simply refer to the polarity of the pickup? That would at least make sense. In which case you are fine for MS and Blumlein recording.

Stewart

 

[elbandito]

So after having done a drum session today, it seems clear that the "back" side is actually the front. That is to say that the rear of the mic, as stated by ART is brighter and more like what i expect a ribbon mic of this type to sound like.

I will take one apart sometime in the next couple weeks and photograph it for yall. I don't want to do it just yet - gotta wait for the 'new mic honeymoon' period to pass first.

 

[elbandito]

Btw, for anybody still following this thread, you may be happy to hear that I just scored a battered but working MD421 for $90!! The grill is busted and the clip is gone (surprise, surprise) but I sounds great! I stuck it on the beater side of my kick drum for my studio session last night and the raw tracks sound great. Next, I will try it on some horns and some vox.

 

[mixsit]

Btw, for anybody still following this thread, you may be happy to hear that I just scored a battered but working MD421 for $90!! The grill is busted and the clip is gone (surprise, surprise) but I sounds great! I stuck it on the beater side of my kick drum for my studio session last night and the raw tracks sound great. Next, I will try it on some horns and some vox.

..and a quick 'Beware of Darkness/My Sweet Lord/Wah Wah seque' for good measure!