Response to my Last Newsletter Editorial (23rd June issue)

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I agree. Those bands were fantastic. Those bands also had an edge and were dangerous. They had an "aura" around them that later shit just can't touch. That's what I like about those first gen punk bands and first gen hardcore bands. They were dangerous. There's nothing dangerous about Green Day and their music reflects it. Maybe that's why they got so popular. They are safe and sterile poppy punk for the radio. 12 yr olds can go to their concerts and not get their feelings hurt.

Well - yeah - there was that too - the danger, I guess in spades. So if you take away the wit, and you take away the danger, WTF is left "safe and sterile poppy punk for the radio.". i couldn't have said it better myself - it's like everyone is gulping down thorazine lol.
 
How else do you explain musicians/artists "making it" while much better musicians/artists don't "make it"?

Why does this asinine question keep coming up? I've been hearing it for 40+ years and the answer is still the same:

It's not about musical talent, it's about marketability, i.e. having entertainment talent.

I happen to like the Ramones...actually I like them more not than I did when they were in their "prime". When I first heard them on the radio I thought, "Hey, this is pretty cool".

But when I first heard Green Day on the radio, I thought, "Holy Shit! This is absolutely great!" and started dancing around my apartment playing air guitar.

Keep in mind I was around 30 when I first heard the Ramones, and a little past 40 when I first heard Green Day. It was hardly the first time I had heard good, or even great, music.

Now, I'm not going to claim that luck is a big part of the equation, 'cause it is.

But you have to be ready when luck comes your way. And "ready" doesn't mean you have to be the greatest player in the world, it means you have to be a good entertainer.

And you aren't going to become a good entertainer if you spend all of your time locked in your room running scales and doing rudiments...
 
That's just a symbolic figure of speech right......right....?

:D

Channeling Tom Cruise....

;)


Oh my, I sure hope so...lol!

I feel a bit of bitter sores in this thread. There are prescription medications that can numb the fact that you are not famous. It is fun to blame everyone else tho. :)
 
There are also non-perscription options... ;)


OK...are we going off topic again, or is this a legit segue? :)
 
Well, the 'non prescription' options, are IME the reason that self promotion never happened. Stoners tend to be lazy. I am married to one, so I am not just being a judgmental ass. Though there are certain strains that seem to get the house cleaned. I like those! :)
 
Greg_L

"What is it that you do exactly?"

That's a fair question, as it was my initial PM to Charter-La re HER editorial that started this topic going.

Who am I.

Firstly, I live in Australia and I am probably the oldest person on this forum (70+ years), but I have been involved in the music business at various levels since the late 1950's when I played piano in a six piece pop group (major claim to fame there being one New Years Eve when I broke eight notes on the piano, three of the hammers were never found --- but that's another story). In the early 1960 while at Uni (studying electronics, majoring in audio) I designed and built my first recording studio --- I not only designed and constructed the acoustics (mainly hundreds of egg cartons), but I also designed and built all the electronics (this included the tape recorders {I only purchased the empty decks}, console, speaker boxes and amplifiers --- there were virtually no effects systems available then and those that were cost more than I could afford at the time). This studio became famous for its vocal booth --- the studio's toilet (great reverb), that was called many things!!!!!. This studio was responsible for recording quite a few top ten records (no one that anyone would remember today), but it was also responsible for recording the first real hit song of a group that later became one of the biggest/most successful in the world (due to contractural reasons, I am not allowed to publicly identify them, but I am sure that Google could help if you are really interested!!!!). While at this studio, I diversified and started my first record label (Top Spot Records) and it was on this label that a number of the artists that went through the studio were signed and released.

In 1965, I had outgrown this studio and moved closer to the CBD, where I built a much larger studio (could take a symphony orchestra) and again I designed all the acoustic treatment and the electronics. In 1966 I decided to change the label name to "SOUND66". The label logo was great and it was responsible for releasing a number of top selling LP's by local acts (The Creatures, Bernard Bolan and The Thirty Day Wonders to name just a few). I also commenced recording many radio commercials and the musical sound track for a number of films and TV commercials.

Then a major problem occurred --- 1966 became 1967 and the "hip" label and everything that went with it became "old hat", especially for advertising agencies, so I had to look for another name and "Copperfield" was born and still exists today, 45 years later and as our slogan goes "Proudly Australian and Independent for more than Forty years". I also started a film production business and I believe that it was responsible for recording the first clip of an Australia "pop" act, although another recotd company claim that they wre first!!!!!!!

Because of the commercials my studio was recording and because (at the time) the majority of advertising agencies were located in the heart of the CBD and because they were reluctant to travel, in 1969, the studio moved for the third time. This time, I had the idea that the best recording environment would be in the middle of a 1000acre cow paddock --- no echo, no standing waves, no resonant frequencies (forget the birds, wind, etc), so I decided to design a studio that effectively had no walls. The end result was a studio that was regarded as possibly the best studio in the country for recording "pop" type music, as there was no spill (eg if you had a piano player sitting at one end of the studio and playing with a drummer half way down, both had to wear headphones because they could not hear each other). In this studio I recorded possibly the first heavy metal band in Australia (Radio Birdman) and by the time I sold it the studio had been responsible for recording a large number of recordings by some of the top artists in the country --- many old timers (or those that are still with us) still regard the studio as one of the best and one that produced some of the best sounds. It was definitely responsible for recording some of the best product released on my Copperfield label, including Bernard Bolan, John Battersby, Benny and the Jets and Aidan Nolan (yes the chap that is now sitting high in the US billboard charts -- his "Tales from the Son" LP was recorded in the studio and released on the Copperfield label in the mid 1970's and his lastest release "No Straight Lines" was born in my lounge room and the initial vocals and guitar recorded in my current studio (now in another state). The studio was also responsible for either winning, or being nominated for, a number of prizes at the then Australia version of the Grammies.

Along the way, I have also run the sound dept at the Sydney Opera House (during the first 16 years of its life) and have beern responsible for doing the FOH sound for some of the most famous artists, including John Denver, Frank Sinatra, Joan Sutherland, Pavoritti, The Australian Opera and many others.

Today my record label is in the process of signing and releasing a team of new artists, BUT only if I can make some form of reasonable return on the money I invest to produce the recordings for those artists.

I am still recording (and still on a daily basis learning things), I do not particularly like ITB type recording, I have Cubase but seldon use it, I prefer to sit behind a good console and record to a real recorder --- my gear currently consists of a 96 Chnl fully automated digital console and 56 tracks of digital HD recorder (2 x 24 track + 1 x 8 track all frame accurately synced to the desk), I also have about $60K+ of microphones and a pile of outboard effects units (although I now seldom use these as everything I require is on the desk and I do not particularly like "near field" monitoring, I prefer a couple of good quality "mid field" monitors. I have not really gone into surround sound, but am looking at this option.

And to bring this LONG posting to a end, in my opinion for the vast majority of artists being signed LUCK IS EVERYTHING, for example my last two signings were (a) I happened to be at a hotel one night having dinner (not looking for artists) and unknown to me it was Karoke night and a singer got up and sang --- she was signed before I left for home, (b) the other I was on Youtube looking for a particular clip, when I made a typo and another clip by a different artist started playing -- that artist's recording is the one I have detailed the cost of earlier on this topic and will be released very soon.

I trust that the foregoing gives some idea of my background, to give a full reply would take a book or two --- which I should really write one day!!!!!!!!!

David
 
I happened to be at a hotel one night having dinner (not looking for artists) and unknown to me it was Karoke night and a singer got up and sang --- she was signed before I left for home,

What?! Bull! Nobody really does that these days, do they?

(If so, dang it! That' half of why the open mic scene in Nashville is so crappy! Everyone expects to be "discovered")
 
... in my opinion for the vast majority of artists being signed LUCK IS EVERYTHING, for example...

....the other I was on You tube looking for a particular clip, when I made a typo and another clip by a different artist started playing -- that artist's recording is the one I have detailed the cost of earlier on this topic and will be released very soon.

Yes it was lucky for you to happen upon that You Tube video...
...but if that artist never honed his music talents, perfected his recording skills, made the effort to write/record music and post it up in the You Tube video, which created the opportunity for someone to hear it....
...luck would not have mattered. ;)

So no..."luck" by itself is not everything, and means nothing if you don't put yourself in the "position to be lucky"...IMHO.
 
Oh my, I sure hope so...lol!

I feel a bit of bitter sores in this thread. There are prescription medications that can numb the fact that you are not famous. It is fun to blame everyone else tho. :)

no bitter, or sores here. just my thoughts as to why many times the pioneers don't get the credit. the fact that i am not famous stems from the fact that it requires a combination of talent, drive and luck. i lack all three lol
 
no bitter, or sores here. just my thoughts as to why many times the pioneers don't get the credit. the fact that i am not famous stems from the fact that it requires a combination of talent, drive and luck. i lack all three lol

No need to be so harsh on yourself man. I suck too. :)
 
Firstly, I live in Australia and I am probably the oldest person on this forum (70+ years)

David

Dad, is that you? *sobs*

Ha ha... kidding. David Gibson right? Just reading your Copperfield website...

I don't know that I've ever heard Radio Birdman described as heavy metal before, more like Aus punk circa '75 - it's a shame Greg didn't read that far into your post, but he's renowned for not reading long posts... as a punk man with a current side interest in surf guitar, I'm sure he's come across Aloha Steve and Danno before. I'm sure I have a 45 of it somewhere here, although perhaps not any more. I know I used to have it..

From an unsigned Aus act, I tips my lid to ya...

I'm not sure if I'm "new and exciting".... and I don't get up to Queensland much, although I come from there - worth sending you a CD do ya think? Or a link? You could be my lucky break... :)
 
No need to be so harsh on yourself man. I suck too. :)

Not really harsh - just realistic. I know plenty of guys who have 'made it'. Major label releases, world tours, sell out theatre venues in 15 minutes. Others who were very popular regional bands - gigging every night, packed houses. Guys who do music for soundtrack, commercial, video games. Seriously talented multi-instrumentalists - drums, guitars, bass, keys, vocals, harmonies. My jaw drops when I hear their stuff, even the stuff they are just doing as a goof. They all are insanely talented, driven and occasionally were in the right place at the right time. I've been content to keep doing what amounts to the digital equivalent of '4-tracking' my whole life - writing songs and giving out cds and mp3s to friends. I never had the the drive, the talent or the luck to pull off anything more than that.
 
Not really harsh - just realistic. I know plenty of guys who have 'made it'. Major label releases, world tours, sell out theatre venues in 15 minutes. Others who were very popular regional bands - gigging every night, packed houses. Guys who do music for soundtrack, commercial, video games. Seriously talented multi-instrumentalists - drums, guitars, bass, keys, vocals, harmonies. My jaw drops when I hear their stuff, even the stuff they are just doing as a goof. They all are insanely talented, driven and occasionally were in the right place at the right time. I've been content to keep doing what amounts to the digital equivalent of '4-tracking' my whole life - writing songs and giving out cds and mp3s to friends. I never had the the drive, the talent or the luck to pull off anything more than that.

Dood, you gotta stop sleeping with my mom! :D
 
Being 'famous' is not what it seems to be. It is not all fun and games. Most of the time it is not. It is hard work, lots of pressure, and no private life. It's hard to trust anyone because everyone just wants a piece of you. I would never want this sort of public life. The best thing about being famous and swimming through all the muck to get there is that finally you got a mic and whatever you choose to say will have an impact as you have a captive audience. yet, many famous musicians squander this precious opportunity.

For what it's worth, and if I look objectively at myself. I believe I did have the talent, but not the drive to improve my playing, songwriting or singing. And I certainly did not have the patience for the hard work involved or the long haul. Luck? I believe you create your own luck. I was lucky plenty of times by my own doing, and certainly had enough connections in the biz that if I had something worthy to sign I know the right ears.
 
Guys who do music for soundtrack, commercial, video games. Seriously talented multi-instrumentalists - drums, guitars, bass, keys, vocals, harmonies. My jaw drops when I hear their stuff, even the stuff they are just doing as a goof. They all are insanely talented, driven and occasionally were in the right place at the right time.

Yes...often on music forums, much of that is overlooked, and it's all reduced to "it must be luck".
Not sure if that's just some sort of "denial" generated from our own lack of success or if it's a misunderstanding of what it takes to make it....?
I agree that you do see the crappy band that somehow makes it to the big stages...but honestly, I don't see that as the rule, but rather the exception.

There may be all kinds of bands that I personally do not like, or don't much care for their style of music...but if I look beyond that, I can see that they are talented and good musicians. I think very often, personal tastes can get in the way of critical judgments:
--- "I hate Metal, therefore all Metal sucks and Metal musicians are all hacks." ---
We certainly see that a lot here on HR about Rap. :)
I don't care for Rap, but it's not difficult to spot the Rap hacks VS the well done stuff...even if I don't listen to it.

I almost hate to admit this happened....
From day one I disliked Lady Gaga...CAN'T STAND HER...and I still do think the main reason she got to the top was because of the extreme, provocative image (but she's not the first to use that). AFA as her singing ability, she's just OK...certainly not a world-class singer, but she can sing good enough. I also know that her songs are not just hers, but often written by a team, and while that too is nothing new, it's not the same as when a single person can take full-credit for their work.
All that said, the other day I was surfing the TV channels, and came upon a music show/performance, so I stopped just to see what it was all about as I usually do when I come across music shows.
So I'm watching this person doing a performance, singing & dancing...and I'm actually thinking that the performance was quite good, but I can't make out who it is..???
Turned out it was Gaga :facepalm: in another one of her costumes...nothing extreme/weird, or I would have guessed it was her, rather just dressed different enough to not to make it obvious that it was her...and so I watched the whole thing thinking how well it was done.
So...I still CAN'T STAND HER... :D ...but the point is that when I didn't realize it was her, I got past my prejudice about Gaga, and was able to appreciate the performance and acknowledge that it was well done. She was good in it.

I'll say this for Gaga...she didn't get to the top without "drive"! IMO, that is what "luck" really is in the music biz...having an almost fanatical drive to succeed.
Now, many of us don't want to go to those ends. Most days I have just enough drive to get my ass into the studio to do some tracks or mixes or write a new song, but I'm not out there beating down doors day in and day out trying to sell my songs to a publisher. I know that until I do that, I will never sell a single one...
...mmmmm...but I guess I can just float them out on the Inter-webs and hope I get "lucky". ;)
 
Lady Gaga is an accomplished musician who played in NYC for years, and wrote material for others, before she made her breakthrough...

Like her or not...
 
Lady Gaga is an accomplished musician who played in NYC for years, and wrote material for others, before she made her breakthrough...

Like her or not...

That too shows that "luck" was not what got her to the top.

I just don't like her mainly because of her need to be so weird-extreme in order to get audience attention....but do agree she's pushed hard to get to the top, and has talents...maybe not as a great singer or player...but as an entertainer, for sure.

But I guess weird-extreme is her shtick.
I just wonder how she would do if she just got up and sang, without the weird-extream...but when something works, then you stick to it, I guess.
There have been other artists (Alice Copper comes to mind, and Marilyn Manson) who based their entire careers on weird-extreme.
Maybe I'm just more of a traditional musician, and prefer to let the music, the song, take the light...unless of course you are also a world-class singer/player, in which case your performance also takes the spotlight along with the music...
...but doing Theatre of the Absurd just to sell the music....mmmmm, not my cup-o-tea, though it can be entertaining to watch! :)
 
I just want to see the video of the gig she played, where no one was paying attention, and she took off her clothes.

I think GAGA has a shit ton of balls, a great 'team', and a whole lot of so called luck. If you really want to go to hack land, start with Kiss. Talk about using image to sell crap. Don't get me wrong, I am a Kiss Army member, well I used to be. I just read Ace's book 'No Regrets', and couldn't put it down. It is self promotion that gets popularity. Even if one sees it as flagrant bullshit, it is a way that works. It seems there is quite a lot of jealousy from home recordists, regarding those who have made it. Dare I say Katy Perry? Yeah, she may be a bit mediocre, but it sells. I would love to have talent like GAGA in my studio. I have seen, and worked long and hard on rock musicians that have less that half of her talent.

Just sayin.....
 
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