Power Chords (5ths) over/under Minors & Majors.

[rayc]

I'm a slow learner & don't trust my ears so it was grteat that I doscovered, through some research on this and other parts on the net, that a power chord can overlay or be overlain by a minor or a major chord with no problem. It seems that the 5th is indetermiante and will take on the character of the over/underlay very happily.
This makes life a little easier for me as my chord vocab is very limited & that, in turn, limits my arrangements.
I know you know & that you now know that I didn't know but now that I'm in the know, well, you know!

 

[mixsit]

I's and VI's when you don't want to say (or add to the sound of) major or minor.

 

[Steenamaroo]

It seems that the 5th is indeterminate and will take on the character of the over/underlay very happily.

Correct! The third not of the scale dictates whether a chord's major or minor.

 

[famous beagle]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here.

I mean ... I know Roman numerals, but I don't get the "ones and sixes when you don't want to say ..." What about ones and sixes?

I's and VI's when you don't want to say (or add to the sound of) major or minor.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Funny i wondered about that myself.
I figured he meant Is and Vs since that's what a power-chord is.

 

[mixsit]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here.

I mean ... I know Roman numerals, but I don't get the "ones and sixes when you don't want to say ..." What about ones and sixes?

Funny i wondered about that myself.
I figured he meant Is and Vs since that's what a power-chord is.

Yes. Damn, I'm sorry, ones and fives and that would be V' not VI!
My bad.
The 'first- 'one- the tonnic, and the fith of the scale/chord. For example the low three strings of your bar chord. That is the I-V sound- not major, not minor' (the sound of pure power
That place (is one of that..) lends to the typical rock/blues scales and riffs that while might use the minor third, the key is (can be) still major.

 

[jamintravis]

I do mostly acoustic work, and when I record I like to really fill in the gaps and make it sound as full as I can while maintaining an entirely acoustic sound, so I add a lot of what I call "octave" or "slider" chords over top of things, which is common in a lot of music nowadays, especially newer pop-punk bands and such. They aren't really chords, or intervals even. They're power chords with the 5th taken out, so it's just the root note played at 2 different octaves. Simple shape that can be moved anywhere on the neck quickly and easily. If used right, it can add a lot of depth and harmonic quality to an otherwise bland chord pattern.

 

[Justsomeguy]

the only thing i'd add is be careful. for 6 chords out of a 7 standard chords in a scale the "power chord as a major or minor" works fine but if the chord should be diminished then power chords/5th chords don't work as diminished chords have 1,b3,b5. For example, in the key of G major, the chord over F# is diminished. if you want to still play power chords over it there's two ways; one, move the 5th down a fret. in this case, assuming F# as the root, moving the finger from the 4th fret on the A string to the 3rd fret on the A string would solve the problem. the alternative, and what i hear/do a lot is play a G5 chord and move the root note down to F# (so third fret on the E to second fret on the E) this works especially well when moving back to the G chord.

Other than that, power chords rule and not having a defined tonality means you can easily jump between keys/chords without it sounding too odd

 

[guitaristic]

the only thing i'd add is be careful. for 6 chords out of a 7 standard chords in a scale the "power chord as a major or minor" works fine but if the chord should be diminished then power chords/5th chords don't work as diminished chords have 1,b3,b5. For example, in the key of G major, the chord over F# is diminished. if you want to still play power chords over it there's two ways; one, move the 5th down a fret. in this case, assuming F# as the root, moving the finger from the 4th fret on the A string to the 3rd fret on the A string would solve the problem. the alternative, and what i hear/do a lot is play a G5 chord and move the root note down to F# (so third fret on the E to second fret on the E) this works especially well when moving back to the G chord.

Other than that, power chords rule and not having a defined tonality means you can easily jump between keys/chords without it sounding too odd

Or you could just throw in an F power chord instead of the F# dim. power chord to give it that awesome G-D-F-C feel. Forget what that scale/mode/whatever is called but it's cool!

 

[Greg_L]

Powerchords ftw.

 

[ido1957]

Are there any other kinds ?

 

[ido1957]

Yeah my song Heartbreaker uses an E minor as the main chord (Key of G). But I play 5ths on E and unless I hit the G String you'd never know. If I do hit the G String and I'm using a major you know though...lol....

 

[Ajrdileva]

No thirds mean no major/minor color. that's right. Unless you start using the 6 or the b6 then you are actually playing a third. Perfect intervals give you an open sound that could be used either in major or minor.

 

[famous beagle]

That's the Mixolydian mode: basically a major scale with a flat 7th. It's definitely the classic rock sound, but it's used in other ways as well.

Or you could just throw in an F power chord instead of the F# dim. power chord to give it that awesome G-D-F-C feel. Forget what that scale/mode/whatever is called but it's cool!

 

[famous beagle]

This is certainly true; when you harmonize the major scale with triads, the vii chord is diminished, and it's the only diminished 5th in the scale.

However, there's still no reason that you can't play a perfect 5th or make it a minor chord (with a perfect 5th) instead of a diminished chord. Sure, that note would be non-diatonic (out of the key), but that doesn't make it "wrong." Music uses lots of non-diatonic notes all the time. If it's the sound you want, then that's the sound you need.

Take a little song called "Yesterday," for example. It sounds in the key of F (Paul plays it in G, but his guitar is tuned down a whole step), and the progression goes like this:

| F | Em A7 | Dm | Bb C | Bb F | etc.

Right out of the gates there, you get an Em in the key of F. It's part of a ii - V - i that's leading to Dm (Em - A7 - Dm). Technically, Edim (or Em7b5 if you made it a seventh chord) would be the diatonic choice, but Paul's melody at that point makes use of the D melodic minor scale:


I'm (A) not (B) half (C#) the (D) man (E) I (F) used (E) to (D) be (D).

So, with the B natural note in the melody, which is a striking sound, Em is actually "correct," as it contains a B note, instead of Bb, which is diatonic to the key of F.

the only thing i'd add is be careful. for 6 chords out of a 7 standard chords in a scale the "power chord as a major or minor" works fine but if the chord should be diminished then power chords/5th chords don't work as diminished chords have 1,b3,b5. For example, in the key of G major, the chord over F# is diminished. if you want to still play power chords over it there's two ways; one, move the 5th down a fret. in this case, assuming F# as the root, moving the finger from the 4th fret on the A string to the 3rd fret on the A string would solve the problem. the alternative, and what i hear/do a lot is play a G5 chord and move the root note down to F# (so third fret on the E to second fret on the E) this works especially well when moving back to the G chord.

Other than that, power chords rule and not having a defined tonality means you can easily jump between keys/chords without it sounding too odd

 

[Justsomeguy]

This is certainly true; when you harmonize the major scale with triads, the vii chord is diminished, and it's the only diminished 5th in the scale.

However, there's still no reason that you can't play a perfect 5th or make it a minor chord (with a perfect 5th) instead of a diminished chord. Sure, that note would be non-diatonic (out of the key), but that doesn't make it "wrong." Music uses lots of non-diatonic notes all the time. If it's the sound you want, then that's the sound you need.

Take a little song called "Yesterday," for example. It sounds in the key of F (Paul plays it in G, but his guitar is tuned down a whole step), and the progression goes like this:

| F | Em A7 | Dm | Bb C | Bb F | etc.

You're totally right and i didn't intend it to come across that i was saying it never works. My point was aimed more at those learning songs with diminished chords in and trying to replace all the chords with powerchords (most people have been there)

 

[famous beagle]

Yeah that's true. A lot of people do that in the early days for sure!

You're totally right and i didn't intend it to come across that i was saying it never works. My point was aimed more at those learning songs with diminished chords in and trying to replace all the chords with powerchords (most people have been there)

 

[Chris Smith]

You're totally right and i didn't intend it to come across that i was saying it never works. My point was aimed more at those learning songs with diminished chords in and trying to replace all the chords with powerchords (most people have been there)

Pretty much.