Portable reflection filter question?

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cyrax037

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Ok, so I have a couple questions. (I don't know if I've posted here before. Lurked from time to time though)


I'm looking at building some sort of reflection filter, that is portable so that I can get decent clean vocals in a variety of environments(whether I'm in my own space, or someone else's living room.)

I thought about something like Tim Obrian's simple soundbooth which looks good. I've seen it linked to several times before on here, how well does it work? How quick is it it setup and break down? Cost? To make it more portable I'd have to modify it so that the tallest pieces break down smaller cuz my car is small.

What about a basic PVC frame and hanging a smaller acoustic panel(Standard wood frame, fiberglass insulation type) in front of the singer for them to sing into? Would that be just as effective, more so?

Which is more important, to have a filter in front, or behind the singer?


Thanks in advance.
 
Personally, I would hang up a duvet behind the singer - it works very well. It deadens any reflections from the wall behind the singer into the microphone without making the recording too dead.

These commercial "reflection filters" are behind the mic., where the mic. is least sensitive, and don't damp down wall reflections into the front of the mic. at all.
 
First - what mic are you using and can you set the sound pattern on it?
 
John Willett said:
Personally, I would hang up a duvet behind the singer - it works very well. It deadens any reflections from the wall behind the singer into the microphone without making the recording too dead.

These commercial "reflection filters" are behind the mic., where the mic. is least sensitive, and don't damp down wall reflections into the front of the mic. at all.
Click to expand...

Same here; duvet behind the singer, reflection filter in front of the singer. also, as my walls are treated but my ceiling isn't, i bung a towel over the top of the filter to stop anything bouncing in from the roof.

i've not tried making a reflection filter but i've tried a handful of the commercially available ones and they all do what they're supposed to, although some of them do colour the sound going in to the mic. some make it sound "honky", some make it sound "muddy". i ended up with the sE Project Reflextion filter for £60 as it worked, didn't colour the sound, and seeing as they've finally taken peoples advice and changed the mounting system, it's now very stable and super quick and easy to get up and down.

However, as john said, a duvet or something behind the singer makes much more impact ime
 
I'm using an Audio Technica AT2020. (The XLR version, not the USB)

I also have the dynamic mic that came with my Peavey Messenger system, but I don't use it much other then talking over the PA.



Alright. Little new to all this, so forgive my ignorance, but by duvet you're talking about the big fluffy blanket type thing right?


I think I already have something very very similar. Some of the recording I did in my old house, I hung it up behind my singer, and had a mattress set up in front of them. I could probably use that still right? Would it be more beneficial to setup with two frames like the "simple reflection filter", or could I get decent results by using just one as a sound wall?
 
cyrax037 said:
Alright. Little new to all this, so forgive my ignorance, but by duvet you're talking about the big fluffy blanket type thing right?

I think I already have something very very similar. Some of the recording I did in my old house, I hung it up behind my singer, and had a mattress set up in front of them. I could probably use that still right? Would it be more beneficial to setup with two frames like the "simple reflection filter", or could I get decent results by using just one as a sound wall?
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Yeah, a duvet or quilt or whatever else you call the big, warm thing that you put on a bed and sleep under :)

both a quilt/duvet/blanket behind the singer and a simple reflection filter would both be very useful. if you could only have one, i'd strongly suggest waiting/saving/building and have both. for years i recorded in a very well treated space and when we did vocals we used to place the singer with their back to a blanket slung over a bass trap and always had very good results. however, as part of a package deal we ended up with the sE project reflextion filter. first time we used it the difference was night and day! did it make more difference than the singer with their back to the blanket? no. did it make a noticeable difference in creating a dead vocal sound? most definitely :)

and yes, if you have used a blanket behind and mattress in front of the singer before and found it worked then stick with it, although i'm guessing that, like you've said, it's not the most portable solution
 
Yeah!

What about my acoustic panel? Its small enough to be portable, would I benefit from putting that in front of my singer instead of typical reflection filter? The fiberglass insulation is better at absorbing the lower frequencies then foam is, Am I right?

Or would I benifit by hanging the panal on the frame then draping the blanket over it. Then use a foam reflection filter in the front?
 
cyrax037 said:
Yeah!

What about my acoustic panel? Its small enough to be portable, would I benefit from putting that in front of my singer instead of typical reflection filter? The fiberglass insulation is better at absorbing the lower frequencies then foam is, Am I right?

Or would I benifit by hanging the panal on the frame then draping the blanket over it. Then use a foam reflection filter in the front?
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I find it best to have the absorption behind the head of the singer to minimise reflections off the wall back into the front of the mic.
 
John Willett said:
Good idea - but why behind the microphone?

This is where the mic. is least sensitive and is not so important.

I would have thought it best to have a reflection filter behind the singer to prevent reflections getting into the front of the mic.
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That too! and bass trapping. I'm just saying lets say you have this treated room with bass traps and walls treated well, but not overly dead (a control room setup for example). Recording your vocal take in there with the addition of that behind-the-mic filter (just for the extra stuff bouncing off the wall behind the mic and possibly getting back in), would most likely yield better results than recording your take inside of a vocal booth or some vocal booth in a box solution, as this overdeadens and doesn't take care of bass buildup.

Long story short: record them in a nicely treated room with the addition of the filter as opposed to no filter and inside a "vocal booth".

EDIT: That filter isn't just for the rear, but the sides as well. If you're using a condenser or dynamic with a cardioid pickup pattern (standard for lead vocals), it takes in some information from the sides as well.
 
John Willett said:
Good idea - but why behind the microphone?
This is where the mic. is least sensitive and is not so important.
Click to expand...

Absorbers used to tame room reflections should be behind the microphone. At least, when using an absorber that's large enough to be useful. The point is you sing into the microphone, and the absorber behind it stops the sound right there before it even gets out into the room to bounce around. This is far better than putting an absorber behind the singer after the fact.

--Ethan
 
I am thinking in my situation, that I could utilize both methods. A $10 filter, and a sound wall useing a PVC frame and a thick blanket I already have, isn't exactly gonna break my bank account, HAHA. And A single frame/wall will be easier to transport then 2-3. If of course you guys think that a single sound wall behind the singer will be effective, even if the room isn't necessarily treated well.

Still looking for an answer on the acoustic panel question. Should I utilize it in a portable situation, or keep it at home and use the duvet and foam filter?
 
Keep your panels at home. Make a few wheelable/freestanding gobos for portable use, if you plan on recording anyone offsite. Could be useful to tame and isolate the source when the room you're using off-site isn't treated.
 
Ethan Winer said:
Absorbers used to tame room reflections should be behind the microphone. At least, when using an absorber that's large enough to be useful. The point is you sing into the microphone, and the absorber behind it stops the sound right there before it even gets out into the room to bounce around. This is far better than putting an absorber behind the singer after the fact.

--Ethan
Click to expand...

...and this is borne out by the sE Reflexion filter which actually works amazingly well if you take the trouble to set it up as per the manufacturer's instructions. That said, I find the best results can be when I also have a soft surface (even just heavy drapes) behind the vocalist.

However, it's worth noting that the Reflexion filter is carefully designed and uses specific materials. Simply putting some foam covered cardboard behind the mic can sometimes be worse than nothing.
 
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