Why is the piano sound so bad through my new A&H ZED-10FX mixer?

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tonyw3026

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I am not very experienced with using mixers but have been using a Behringer 1202FX for a couple of years. I recently bought an A&H ZED-10FX and am very disappointed with the stereo piano sound quality from my Yamaha keyboard when it is routed through the ZED. With my Behringer the Yamaha stereo piano patch sound is exactly the same whether I listen directly from the keyboard or through the mixer but with the ZED the sound is "thin" or "reedy" and loses that clear, crisp Yamaha piano sound. I have tried going through the phono stereo inputs and through two mono inputs and I have the FX switched off but the sound is very poor from all the outputs no matter what I do.

My first thought was I am doing something wrong because A&H have such a good reputation for quality. I would like to keep the ZED for it's features so I wonder if anyone has any ideas

Thanks
Tony
 
tonyw3026 said:
I am not very experienced with using mixers but have been using a Behringer 1202FX for a couple of years. I recently bought an A&H ZED-10FX and am very disappointed with the stereo piano sound quality from my Yamaha keyboard when it is routed through the ZED. With my Behringer the Yamaha stereo piano patch sound is exactly the same whether I listen directly from the keyboard or through the mixer but with the ZED the sound is "thin" or "reedy" and loses that clear, crisp Yamaha piano sound. I have tried going through the phono stereo inputs and through two mono inputs and I have the FX switched off but the sound is very poor from all the outputs no matter what I do.

My first thought was I am doing something wrong because A&H have such a good reputation for quality. I would like to keep the ZED for it's features so I wonder if anyone has any ideas

Thanks
Tony
Click to expand...

Are the mono inputs balanced TRS inputs?
 
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I have tried the guitar inputs, that is what I meant by "two mono inputs"
I always use this method with my Behringer because it has no EQ on the phono stereo inputs.

Tony
 
tonyw3026 said:
Yes, I have tried the guitar inputs, that is what I meant by "two mono inputs"
I always use this method with my Behringer because it has no EQ on the phono stereo inputs.
Click to expand...

Channels 1 and 2 are line level and channels 3 and 4 are high impedance instrument inputs. I assume you've tried them both. Are you using regular unbalanced guitar cables? What model keyboard and what outputs are you using?
 
I have tried 1/2 and 3/4 and they sound the same. All 4 are for balanced/unbalanced signals.
I am using unbalanced guitar cables from the L and R stereo outs on my Yamaha CP33 keyboard.
This setup gives great piano sound through the Behringer 1202FX.

Tony
 
Does the A&H have a HPF button ton the channels, and is it on?
 
Yes, there are HPF buttons and they make no difference.

Thanks
Tony
 
Are you listening with headphones or monitors? If you have headphones plugged into the unit, what does it sound like if you press the 'listen' button for one of the channels the keyboard is plugged into?
 
I am doing the tests with phones so the "listen" button is pressed. The results are the same if I output the main mix to speakers.

Tony
 
Does the keyboard have an auxilliary line in, and is it possible you are suing this instead of the line outs?

Plug the line outs of the keyboard into line-ins of channels 1 & 2 on the A&H.

Make sure all EQ settings are flat. Make sure the HPF button is not pressed.

Make sure ch 1 is panned left, and ch 2 is panned right.

Make sure you have no fx on

Make sure the A&H is not connected to PC via USB.

You should be able to get a respectable sound.

If it's not the HPF, it could be a routing problem. For example, you could be listening to an input signal coupled to a playback signal.
 
Thanks Gecko Zzed for your and everyone's replies.

My keyboard has no line ins and the ZED is set up exactly as you suggested. For my comparison testst there is nothing connected to the ZED other than channels 1/2 in and phones out. When I do a comparison with the Behringer I simply switch these three cables over to hear the difference.

I should mention I am basically an acoustic piano player and am quite picky about piano sounds from my keyboard. It took me a while to realize that you cannot sum a stereo keyboard patch to mono without losing quality because the patch is generated in stereo and you get phase cancellation when L and R are combined before you hear them. This doesn't happen with non-piano patches which are basically mono to start with. This is why I use two mixer input channels panned hard L and R. I also use two PAs (Bose L1 Compacts) connected in stereo. I was very happy with this method using the Behringer mixer. I think I play better when I sound good to myself.

Having got my ears tuned to recognizing good piano sound I was suprised to hear the poorer quality when using the ZED. The sound is exactly the same with phones plugged into the keyboard or into the Behringer. It has a clear, ringing quality - very satisfying. Using the ZED it lose the clarity and each single note sound like I am playing a chord. I suspect many people would say the ZED sound is OK before I demonstrate the difference but it's not good enough for me.

I am in touch with A&H and am waiting for their reply and plan to take the ZED back to Sam Ash for them to test.

Thanks
Tony
 
I believe that you have to push the PAD button on the channel(s) that you are using for the keys (1/4 input) on a A&H console.
 
MrWrenchey said:
You can tell they're TRS if they have a tip, a ring, and a sleeve. No need for a manual. ;)
Click to expand...

You can tell that a CABLE is TRS by looking at it, but you can't do the same for an INPUT, at least not in any way I know of :-)
 
Have you tried connecting other sources to the mixer? Maybe there's something wrong with the board.
 
I have solved it!!!!

Mike B asked if the "listen" buttons were pressed and I said "yes" because when they are off you have to turn up the main mix volume before you get any phone volume at all. I assumed the main mix and phone volume knobs should work independently so kept the listen buttons pressed.

Ryan Landry of American Music and Sound, The A&H service agents, told me that the listen button also SUMS STEREO TO MONO!!!! which is a no no if you want to maintain good piano patch sound. With the listen buttons off the sound is all it should be. It seems a strange design feature that reduces quality just because you press listen - but I can live with it.

It confirms my own research which suggests keyboard and mixer manufacturers and many musicians don't realize the impact on piano patches of summing to mono.

Thanks for all the responses, it's been a great learning experience.

Tony
 
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