M-Audio Pulsar II on Acoustic Guitar (Positions/Preamplification)

[YuvalAS]

Hey,
About 4-5 months ago I posted here the following thread: https://homerecording.com/bbs/equipment-forums/microphones/dilemma-mic-should-i-get-329471/2/

Finally I changed direction at all, and ended up buying a brand new matched pair of the M-Audio Pulsar II (as I got this pair for $135 when it usually sells for $300 with msrp $400...)

I couldn't save money on the shipment, and paid for air-shipping instead the standard overseas shipments (so I've already received them after 7 days, not 40..)

So I'm generally satisfied with how the microphones pick up the sound of my guitar, but have just one thing weird with them..
I used them with the M-Audio Fast Track Pro A/I and somehow I don't hear anything until I boost up the gain to the max (which is over 40dB I think).
The preamps on my A/I add noise to the signal even when no cable is connected to the input. So my problem is that I can't use the mics at a lower gain, and with a higher gain I hear noise...

I assume you're gonna suggest buying a dedicated preamp as the output impedance of the Pulsar is very low, and a good preamp will be able to give gain along with clarity..

But as you know, I'm 17 y/o boy so I have a very low budget and I buy anything in steps..
So I know that I'll be looking forward to buy a good preamp, but not now..
Now I need any temporary suggestion to cancel the noises without affecting the sound quality, or getting a soung out of the mics at a lower gain... [btw I made sure that the -10dB pad is off, as well as the 80Hz high-pass]

Also, can you give me some good suggestions on the mics positions? M-Audio only suggests the X-Y and ORTF positions..
I "played" with positioning and thought that what sounds best was: one mic in front of the 12nd-14th fret at about 6 inches away of the guitar, and second mic that comes from a 2 inches distance from the first mic positioned to the right side of the guitar's body (where the guitar mostly produce bass - even more right relative to the soundhole...
I'd be happy to hear about more mics positions for acoustic guitar. and also for a cajon (I put in the ORTF position against the front of the cajon, from about 8 inches far), at a very low height (about 5 inches from the floor).

So we have:
1. preamp noise at high gain problem, and
2. mics positions for acoustic guitar and cajon...

Thank you so much in advance, and happy new year
Yuval

 

[omtayslick]

Hi Yuval,

Nice to hear back from you. Unfortunately, most of the suggestions for solving the gain problem will involve spending more money.

Although 40db's of gain is on the low side, it seems that you should not have to crank the gain all the way up to get sound. I don't know the pulsars, but most sdc's on the market these days are pretty sensitive.

Have you tried one mic at a time? I am wondering if perhaps you are experiencing a drop off in phantom power using 2 mics at a time on your device since it is usb powered.

 

[YuvalAS]

Hi Yuval,

Nice to hear back from you. Unfortunately, most of the suggestions for solving the gain problem will involve spending more money.

Although 40db's of gain is on the low side, it seems that you should not have to crank the gain all the way up to get sound. I don't know the pulsars, but most sdc's on the market these days are pretty sensitive.

Have you tried one mic at a time? I am wondering if perhaps you are experiencing a drop off in phantom power using 2 mics at a time on your device since it is usb powered.

Hey, thanks for your response!
I made a lot of tests, and found out that it's possible to get sound at a lower gain, but the it doesn't sound as I want it to sound.
It sounds really good when the gain is high (or even almost the highest) but that way the signal is way far of being clear.

I understand that I might be needed to spend more money, what I mean is that I currently can't afford a $300 preamp, but maybe a $50-80, let's say $100 top - if that solves the clarity issues. [I actually find a few Behringers, M-Audio, Presonus preamps in my budget, but i'm not sure, they're really low end manufacturers/models based on reviews].

What's weird is that it looks like it's a known issue for M-Audio. They state in the documentation papers that attached to the mics package:
"The M-Audio Pulsar II microphone outputs a balanced low-impedance signal. It is designed
to be connected to the mic-level inputs of a mixer channel or a dedicated high-quality preamp
such as M-Audio’s DMP3, Octane, or Tampa. These are all very “neutral” sounding preamps
that can amplify your microphone signal, while retaining its full dynamic range and clarity."

Also I tried using one mic at a time, and I haven't noticed any difference, so I don't think it's a phantom-power drop off.

Thanks again,
Yuval

 

[omtayslick]

I can speak with confidence about the DMP3. I own one and have used it for years. It has 66db gain per channel, and does nicely for acoustic guitar recording. Generally they go for about $150-$160 new, but I am confident that you would like it.

Another good choice would be the Soundcraft Notepad mixers. They have been discontinued but many are still in stock at some stores:
Soundcraft Notepad 124Fx Mixer Built in Effects Processor

Unfortunately many of the other choices in that price range may be iffy.

Good luck.

 

[YuvalAS]

I can speak with confidence about the DMP3. I own one and have used it for years. It has 66db gain per channel, and does nicely for acoustic guitar recording. Generally they go for about $150-$160 new, but I am confident that you would like it.

Another good choice would be the Soundcraft Notepad mixers. They have been discontinued but many are still in stock at some stores:
Soundcraft Notepad 124Fx Mixer Built in Effects Processor

Unfortunately many of the other choices in that price range may be iffy.

Good luck.

The DMP3 looks really nice, I looove M-Audio. Can it reach the 40 and remain noiseless?
Somehow there are a few bad reviews on Sweetwater claiming it doesn't sound like a professional preamplifier. Does it really have the clarity I'm after at higher gain?

I also put an eye on the Behringer MIC2200 which is a tube preamplifier with up to 60dB of gain, has built in phaser and EQ. It sells on eBay for $99. It seems attractive.
But people say that Behringer is a very low end manufacturer and I shouldn't buy any of their products, but reviews on Sweetwater seem to like this preamp.

Thanks again!

 

[omtayslick]

The reality of things is that nothing in that price range is going to sound like a "professional" preamp. I have at my disposal a digimax FS, that I use for drums, an ART ProChannel that I use occasionally, and a Grace M101 in addition to the DMP3. The Grace is the only one that is significantly better than the DMP3 and at almost 4 times the cost for one channel rather than two it should be. But the tracks recorded with the DMP3 do not hang their head in shame next to the others, and sometimes I prefer the DMP3 sound.

I don't like to give information on something unless I have real world experience using it, and I can without reservation recommend the DMP3 for your situation.

Some people find the Behringer you mentioned to be ok, but I have not used it.

Do a search on here and at Gearslutz.com for the DMP3 and it will give you more info from real world users. I think that you will find that it is the most highly regarded preamp in it's price range and even above its pricepoint.


M AUDIO DMP3

 

[YuvalAS]

The reality of things is that nothing in that price range is going to sound like a "professional" preamp. I have at my disposal a digimax FS, that I use for drums, an ART ProChannel that I use occasionally, and a Grace M101 in addition to the DMP3. The Grace is the only one that is significantly better than the DMP3 and at almost 4 times the cost for one channel rather than two it should be. But the tracks recorded with the DMP3 do not hang their head in shame next to the others, and sometimes I prefer the DMP3 sound.

I don't like to give information on something unless I have real world experience using it, and I can without reservation recommend the DMP3 for your situation.

Some people find the Behringer you mentioned to be ok, but I have not used it.

Do a search on here and at Gearslutz.com for the DMP3 and it will give you more info from real world users. I think that you will find that it is the most highly regarded preamp in it's price range and even above its pricepoint.


M AUDIO DMP3

After a massive research, I found out that the M-Audio DMP3 is the best preamp in my budget. Also if it's recommended here, and you're telling from your own experience I trust it.
So I guess I'm going for it. Do you know somewhere where I can buy an used one at a lower price except eBay? I found a new one from a store for $135.

Btw, how should I position the sdcs against the guitar?

Thanks again.

 

[omtayslick]

Sorry, don't know anywhere less than that for a DMP3. Sounds like you dug up a good deal for a new one at that price.

There is a lot written about positioning mics, but every guitar and room is different. So experimentation in placement is key. Here are some starting points:

Acoustic Guitar Recording Techniques

 

[moresound]

Hello YuvalAS nice to hear from you again.

Take a look at cloudlifter ..... Wait ..... on looking again I don't think it will work on condenser microphones. But it will broaden your knowledge.

 

[omtayslick]

Hello YuvalAS nice to hear from you again.

Take a look at cloudlifter ..... Wait ..... on looking again I don't think it will work on condenser microphones. But it will broaden your knowledge.

Yup Henry,
I thought about something like that, or a Triton FET-head. But he's on a budget, so the DMP3 seemed like the ticket for him at the per channel price. Have you ever used one? (DMP3 that is) They're really pretty good.

And you're right, it's always good to broaden our knowledge and learn about what's available.

 

[moresound]

Oh yes Tom. The DMP3 is a great value for the money. And should be just what YuvalAS will need.

Just out of curiosity though ..... what kind of electrical service does Israel have?

 

[omtayslick]

Good question. I don't know about the electrical service.

 

[YuvalAS]

Sorry, don't know anywhere less than that for a DMP3. Sounds like you dug up a good deal for a new one at that price.

There is a lot written about positioning mics, but every guitar and room is different. So experimentation in placement is key. Here are some starting points:

Acoustic Guitar Recording Techniques

Thanks for the link!
So far I've been using something that's very similar to their "Version A" position, it sounded the best for me after playing with the positions.

Hello YuvalAS nice to hear from you again.

Take a look at cloudlifter ..... Wait ..... on looking again I don't think it will work on condenser microphones. But it will broaden your knowledge.

Looks really nice, simple but nice... It's way out of my budget..
I checked if it works with condenser microphone, but it says that this preamp draws phantom power but doesn't pass it to the mic - so this is incompatible with condensers..

I agree that people should always research to learn more and see what's available, anyway it wouldn't harm..

Oh yes Tom. The DMP3 is a great value for the money. And should be just what YuvalAS will need.

Just out of curiosity though ..... what kind of electrical service does Israel have?

Yeah, I think I'll end up buying the DMP3, it's seems the best in my budget. Also M-Audio recommend that one for use with the Pulsar II as it gets a neutral sound...

And here in Israel we use 220V/50Hz (while in the US it's 110V-120V/60Hz)...
Whenever I but something from the US that wasn't designed to work with 220V, I use a step-down voltage converter. Actually I've already switched most of the electric outlets in my room to US outlet (both with voltage and shape) as most of my things were purchased in the US (I'm addicted of buying things from the US; everyone say I'm insane for changing the outlets, but I don't care..)

 

[omtayslick]

Thanks for the reply Yuval. It's been good corresponding with you about this. I hope we have been helpful. I'm sure you'll like the DMP3. Let us know how it works for you.

Funny thing, many of us in the USA give little thought to power requirements. Never entered my mind. Glad you have that sorted out already.

 

[YuvalAS]

Thanks for the reply Yuval. It's been good corresponding with you about this. I hope we have been helpful. I'm sure you'll like the DMP3. Let us know how it works for you.

Funny thing, many of us in the USA give little thought to power requirements. Never entered my mind. Glad you have that sorted out already.

You really helped me choosing the DMP3..
I'll update as soon as I buy it..
Thanks again!