Hi everyone...can you guys help me with my space?

[35chevy]

Hello everyone, this is my first post. Good to meet all of you. I'm new to recording and I'll be hanging around trying to learn as mush as possible. I have pro tools 8 m-powered and a m-audio profire 2626. I have an exterior building behind my home that I will be attempting to record in but it needs help. It sounds like a train wreck. I'm posting a couple of pictures so hopefully you guys can give me some pointers where to start taming this space. It is a 12x25 with 3 windows, one entry door, and a insulated garage door. The walls and ceiling are OSB and the floor is painted concrete. I believe the ceiling height is in the 7.5 ft range. I have read about owens corning 703, bass traps, diffusers, and moving blankets, but i'm not sure how much I need or where to place everything. Please take a look at these pics and give me some ideas. I am currently trying to get rid of the stuff that is stored in there so the clutter will be gone soon hopefully. Thanks.

 

[mjbphotos]

Yeah, you need some room treatment in there for sure. Check out the Studio Building section of these forums.

 

[JimmyS1969]

What I would start with: Desk centered on wall with AC unit, 2' out. Straddle all 4 corners with 4" minimum rockwool panels floor to ceiling. 4 2'X4'X4" panels, 2 hanging above desk and one on each side wall at reflection points. From there, I would tame reflections in the room with more 2X4 panels on walls. Get rid of the fluorescent lighting. This is what I have done in my control room.

Even better, would be to tear out the ceiling and fill the whole thing with rockwool, then cover with cloth. This I did to my drum room.

 

[35chevy]

What I would start with: Desk centered on wall with AC unit, 2' out. Straddle all 4 corners with 4" minimum rockwool panels floor to ceiling. 4 2'X4'X4" panels, 2 hanging above desk and one on each side wall at reflection points. From there, I would tame reflections in the room with more 2X4 panels on walls. Get rid of the fluorescent lighting. This is what I have done in my control room.

Even better, would be to tear out the ceiling and fill the whole thing with rockwool, then cover with cloth. This I did to my drum room.

I have read a little about superchunks.....I know straddling the corners would be much easier and use less material, but I wonder if there's an advantage either way in my situation? Tearing out the whole ceiling sounds like something I might hold off on LOL...Although, I wonder how much it would help if I remove the flourescent lights and fill in the spaces where they are with rockwool or equivalent and cover with cloth? Hmmm, thanks for those tips. Removing the lights is something I have not thought of.

 

[fuzzsniffvoyage]

I don't see a lava lamp. You need a lava lamp.

 

[Capriccio]

I know from other people who ask that jimmys69 and I have learned much the same thing, so I will repeat that you should ideally place your desk and monitors on a short wall so that you are shooting down the longer length. The theory behind this is to do with the length of bass frequencies.

You ask about straddling corners with traps versus superchunks (triangular shaped traps that fill the whole corner). Again, the difference is to do with bass frequencies. It comes down to personal choice but with a bass drum in the room I would save up a bit longer and opt for superchunks. The performance of 4" traps (minimum depth) straddling the corners is usually good enough. It will partly depend on how many traps you are placing in other corners for bass trapping (ie. all 4 vertical corners and the wall to ceiling corners).

 

[35chevy]

I don't see a lava lamp. You need a lava lamp.

I knew something was missing

 

[35chevy]

I know from other people who ask that jimmys69 and I have learned much the same thing, so I will repeat that you should ideally place your desk and monitors on a short wall so that you are shooting down the longer length. The theory behind this is to do with the length of bass frequencies.

You ask about straddling corners with traps versus superchunks (triangular shaped traps that fill the whole corner). Again, the difference is to do with bass frequencies. It comes down to personal choice but with a bass drum in the room I would save up a bit longer and opt for superchunks. The performance of 4" traps (minimum depth) straddling the corners is usually good enough. It will partly depend on how many traps you are placing in other corners for bass trapping (ie. all 4 vertical corners and the wall to ceiling corners).

Ok so I am looking into moving the desk......Few question. What about everything else? Where's the ideal location for the drums? Are the couch and love seat beneficial? I know they are great when we practice LOL. Do the vocals and all the instruments ideally need to shoot down the longer length?

 

[JimmyS1969]

I have read a little about superchunks.....I know straddling the corners would be much easier and use less material, but I wonder if there's an advantage either way in my situation? Tearing out the whole ceiling sounds like something I might hold off on LOL...Although, I wonder how much it would help if I remove the flourescent lights and fill in the spaces where they are with rockwool or equivalent and cover with cloth? Hmmm, thanks for those tips. Removing the lights is something I have not thought of.

From my research, I have found that straddling a corner with a 4" trap, will absorb more low end than filling the corner with dense material, due to the resulting air gap behind. Fluffy stuff is beneficial behind the trap as well.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Ok so I am looking into moving the desk......Few question. What about everything else? Where's the ideal location for the drums? Are the couch and love seat beneficial? I know they are great when we practice LOL. Do the vocals and all the instruments ideally need to shoot down the longer length?

There really is no ideal location for the drums, other than how you treat around them with the room that you have. A really big room would be ideal, but neither of us have that. I found using Auralex (the only place I would ever use it-EVER!!) above the overhead mic's, helped to reduce side reflections and seemed a bit more accurate sounding. That being said, the fact that your control room is in the same room as your gear, you may need to make some sacrifices. #1 is getting the low end and first reflections under control for your monitoring of the recorded sounds. Getting correct mic placement will be a trial and error situation when recording in the same room. I have been there. It does not really take that long if you have the room treatment to be able to actually hear what is happening. A 'live' recording room, is treated in a different way than a control room. The fact that you have to use the same room for both, means that you are best off treating it as a control room. Then work on the rest of it if needed.

Vocals are best recorded just off center of the room IME. I hang two 2'X4'X4" rockwool panels from the ceiling, in a 'V' behind the mic, with a panel on wall behind singer, to stop reflections off the walls. A reflection filter would be an option, but just building your own panels is way cheaper. And you have the space for them.

Guitars are typically close mic'd, and are the least of your worries in your space. Micing them with the amps elevated from the floor, away from a wall, would be my first choice. Acoustic guitar will be a different situation. Even there, basic room treatment for a control room, will be a good start.

 

[35chevy]

Ok.....so I've spent some time working on my place and I figured i'd see what you guys think so far. The lamp has got to go, I'll be replacing it with a lava lamp soon LOL. The speakers in the corners are going away and the pile of useless stuff around the drums will hopefully go away over the next week or so. This was my storage building and now I have to find somewhere to put this stuff. I've got to move the stuff on the walls and get curtains to go over the A/C and windows. I guess my next project will be building superchunk corner bass traps. I guess I am going to use roxul "safe n sound" unless something changes. I have called everywhere I can think of looking for rigid 703/705 or roxul rockboard locally and I'm out of luck. I called owens corning and got the name of the only dealer anywhere near me and they gave me a price higher than the internet prices. The only place I can find safe n sound is lowes and it will cost me $95+ tax for enough to build four corners and have one piece left over. Considering enough 703 to do the corners will cost over double that plus who knows what shipping, I guess it's not hard to fugure out which way to go. I guess next I will figure out something to go above the drums, add different lighting, and fill the 2'x4' holes where the fluorescents are with roxul and cover with cloth. Do you think that will be suffiecient for ceiling treatment? What about the windows? I thought about having some white shipping blankets sewn the size of the window and hang them behind the blinds. Also, What should I do with the monitors? Thanks for the ideas so far.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Where do you live?

 

[35chevy]

Where do you live?

South Alabama

 

[35chevy]

I think you have not to change any more but the sofa should replace with the sound stereo and all the other things are ok on their places.
And the second option set up the sound system on other room

Could you repeat that please?

 

[JimmyS1969]

South Alabama

Bummer. SPI is where I get my Roxul cheap. Nearest one to you is in Atlanta.

 

[35chevy]

Bummer. SPI is where I get my Roxul cheap. Nearest one to you is in Atlanta.

Atlanta is like 4 hrs. from me.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Could you repeat that please?

Ignore that. It is a cyborg. Will be sent to oblivion shortly.

 

[JimmyS1969]

Atlanta is like 4 hrs. from me.

Yeah, you are better off with the Safe and Sound from Lowes then. Just filling the holes where the lighting is, will not be enough to control all the reflections in the room, though keep in mind, there is no 'right' way to treat any room. It depends on what you are trying to achieve in it. For your mixing position, there are more typical plans (as I have given the basics of) that are pretty much standard. How you deal with a multi purpose room, is more based upon trial and error. Testing your room with a program like REW, is probably the best way to determine how treatments are performing. Though your ears are the final decision maker. Take steps to help the problem areas, and make additions later to fine tune the room. Moving the desk was the first step. Getting your monitors off of it, or even building/purchasing a new one without the bulk, would be 'my' next step. Getting the monitors on stands that will not resonate is your best bet there.

 

[Capriccio]

Get your monitors up to ear level.

 

[35chevy]

Get your monitors up to ear level.

I plan to do that. Haven't decided exactly what to do there yet, maybe buy stands or maybe build some. I'm still working on cleaning out clutter and gathering stuff to build bass traps and such. I have 24 pieces of roxul ordered. I can't wait to get the corner traps done.

I need some ideas on the area around the drums....I have just enough room to put a 24" corner bass trap in there, but I'm not sure how well everything is going to end up sounding with the garage door there. Also i need ideas what to put above the drums and retain use of the garage door. I don't mind covering the light or even removing it, but if I put something directly onto the ceiling it can't be thicker than two inches because that's all I have between the door and the ceiling with the door open. Another idea is to drop everything down below the garage door rails. That would leave a 6' space between the top of whatever i put up there and the ceiling. What would you guys do here? Here's a current pic, I've done some much needed cleaning today and got more junk out of the way...