Charging/Record Label

  • Thread starter Thread starter guitarguy101
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People "work" for free because there's an oversupply of everyone... or at least an apparent oversupply.

Technological advancement, including the internet, and globalisation have bought the tools within the reach of everyone. The tools themselves are easier to use than ever before.

Everyone's a singer, everyone's a songwriter, everyone's got a recording "studio" - and a huge percentage of them are fairly useless at all of it, but this is the age where you can be whatever you dream, right...?

Without wanting to sound like an old grampus, having a higher barrier to entry is not such a bad thing sometimes...

To even ring a studio like Alan's and ask them to work for $10 an hour is ridiculous. A 10 hour block for $500, which he offers, is a steal, I reckon, but try telling that to the kiddies with a $200 home "studio" and a dream....

It's one of the reasons I get increasingly short with people posting "I have a budget of $150.... how can I get professional recordings" in this place...
 
One of the things with people today is that they think that because they can buy a studio set up for the home when they come to my studio it should be cheap, because they have their own recording gear and it only cost X amount. What they forget is that what they are really hiring is me. A person that has been playing music and performing since the mid 1970's and recording from early 1980's, I have hands on experience with gear both analog and then digital (when it came along), I read audio mags, books, surf the net for information daily. I can trouble shoot gear problems and fix quite a few things myself. I mixed live sound and ran a touring PA, I toured as a system engineer and as a fold back engineer. This experience must be worth something, and the fact that they can turn up in the studio and play without having to worry about how to get the mixer to work, or why won't my software record, which mic do I need, etc etc. So I figure that the studio hourly rate has at least 50% of me in it. The other 50% covers the buying of gear, maintenance (something new studio owners and home recording people often forget until something stops working), building payments, insurance, rates, electric, etc etc.

Now compare it to my favourite comparison occupation: Plumbers, how much an hour do they charge?

Don't work for nothing, don't sell yourself short. People that want you to do things for nothing are not serious. When I get a call and the first question is how much I already know the quality they want is not important and I probably won't get the job.

Alan.
 
Armistice said:
It's one of the reasons I get increasingly short with people posting "I have a budget of $150.... how can I get professional recordings" in this place...
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Yo dawg, what best mic 4 rap? i got $30
 
Armistice said:
It's one of the reasons I get increasingly short with people posting "I have a budget of $150.... how can I get professional recordings" in this place...
Click to expand...

Wait Wait Wait.....So are you telling me, that if I get a plug & play USB Yeti Mic, and put old egg cartons on my wall in my apartment bedroom closet to make it my "isolation booth", that I am not considered a "professional"?! SHOOT!! And that was my business model ALL ALONG!!!
 
You don't have to be good at something to devalue a trade IMO

If one thousand shit joiners set up in a town and charge half rates, It doesn't matter that they're shit. They're likely to eat enough of the work that the 'big boys' have to compete to some extent.

I think this is what's happening with with any digital trade if you want to call it that.

Anything that can be done on a computer, can be done by almost anyone.
Not necessarily done well, but done, which makes your hour worth so much less.

OK, obviously if your a trading studio with reputation and history and successful or established clients, this may not be true,
but someone new starting out in audio is really up against it.

Back when recording was purely analog, it was a specialist skillset, and a set of specialist tools.
I'm not even sure if 'home studio' was a phrase back then, at least, not with professional intent.

Chances are there are about 4 or 5 guys on this site who would have a snowballs chance in hell of doing any kind of audio engineering work 30 or 40 years ago.

EDIT. Sorry, I think I'm just repeating what those other guys said. Rant over.
 
This thread really strikes home for me..I have been trying to record and mix since 1996, and had been learning everything through trial and error. That was until I found this site, now I asked a few questions, and it it shortens and eases the learning curve. I have never been into analogue recording, well maybe a little at the very beginning, but I am digital all the way now.

My small studio is software based. I have no need for hardware, and until I relocated my equipment I had no space. I am a keyboard player by heart and have been doing so for over 25 years. So the midi option with software synths, seemed the most logical progression for me. My day job pays for my (hopefully one day dream job) and when I'm not working or researching I'm recording.

Strictly no hardware is a lie, as obviously I need mics and guitars and an audio interface which I suppose you would classify as hardware. I have been recording for others for free now for the past 4 years, and never had anyone disappointed with the result. Yet every time I record I can see room for improvement.

I now charge £50 a song, just to help me upgrade mics and software beyond my financial pocket, but have never taken a wage. But I absolutely love what I do and I don't care.

I disagree that everyone can mix with computers, understanding the concept behind mixing, and having the ears and ability to both play instruments and hear problems are the key skills. Whether they are applied by hardware or software is immaterial. We are rating the person not the equipment.

What you have achieved with 2 x SM57's shows good promise and you should be encouraged to further yourself, but take the time to make yourself better. The fact that you have only recorded with SM57's exaggerates your lack of experience, yet compliments your ingenuity. Get both under your belt.

To cover costs in the meantime maybe charge around £30 a song for people you don't know, but don't be afraid to mix for friends for free to increase your portfolio.
 
Richie2708 said:
I disagree that everyone can mix with computers, understanding the concept behind mixing, and having the ears and ability to both play instruments and hear problems are the key skills.
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That's exactly my point though. I'm saying that almost everyone has access to the gear,
but that doesn't mean they are going to be good at it.

The problem is pretty much everyone has a 'studio', but many have no idea how to operate it, or lack the perception skills that you mentioned.

Look at the number of noob threads asking questions like "my shockmount wont fit on my stand; What do I do?"

I mean, if you can't work that out or google it, you're not likely to succeed in anything, let alone audio engineering.
 
I know Steenamaroo :) I agree, my comment wasn't aimed at your or anyone really in particular, I just wanted to make sure that the OP was disheartened by the comments within the thread. There are definitely some skills their for him to expand on.

:)
 
TetraFish said:
This says it all. If you don't expect studio quality, don't expect people to pay studio rates.
What you have now is an expensive hobby (not that there's anything wrong with that).
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OMG, don't you understand when he says "no one" he's referring to "they" but not "we"

By the way, use your father as a mediator/business man if age is an issue.
 
Richie2708 said:
I just wanted to make sure that the OP was disheartened by the comments within the thread.
Click to expand...
Is that meant to be "wasn't" or is there some deep rationale that you're going to dazzle us with ?
If the latter, I'm all ears {well, eyes}. :D
 
TheComposer said:
OMG, don't you understand when he says "no one" he's referring to "they" but not "we"
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OMG you just used OMG!

Anyway, this is how I understand his question.
It's like a guy saying "I have a 78 Toyota, I heard the new Lexus is going for $90,000. What should I sell my Toyota for?"

So no mater if it's "they","we","me" or "you", what does the price of a lexus have to do with anything? It doesn't.

I hope that clears up my point.
 
grimtraveller said:
Is that meant to be "wasn't" or is there some deep rationale that you're going to dazzle us with ?
If the latter, I'm all ears {well, eyes}. :D
Click to expand...

Lol yeah was meant to be wasn't (or wasn't meant to be was) haha :)
 
By the way, I have a pretty decent set up ($1000+.) When you consider I'm in high school servicing bands that would ordinarily have no means to record, then you see my place. Am I going to compete with that pro studio the next town over? Hell no. But have my recordings come out as good as or better than a lot of the wannabe indie "studios" run by some guy in his garage? Definitely. No questions asked.
My question isn't asking for someone to say, "Oh yeah, charge $500. Have fun kid."
I'm looking for something like what guitarguygt said "Even if you only charge $10 for song, do not work fore free." That is far better than, "I've been working for 15 years in this business and I think you're a dumba**
 
I'll do what work I can for free, until I feel I'm worthy of charging people. =P I know if I couldn't afford something, I'd prefer to go for a free option. If it turns out crap, you lost nothing, if it turns out good, you got something good, for nothing.
You have to remember that without them, you're also not getting the practise of recording and mixing other bands either. So if you are charging people and giving them nothing of worth in return, they aren't going to come back and won't recommend anyone else to use you.
 
guitarguy101 said:
By the way, I have a pretty decent set up ($1000+.) When you consider I'm in high school servicing bands that would ordinarily have no means to record, then you see my place. Am I going to compete with that pro studio the next town over? Hell no. But have my recordings come out as good as or better than a lot of the wannabe indie "studios" run by some guy in his garage? Definitely. No questions asked.
My question isn't asking for someone to say, "Oh yeah, charge $500. Have fun kid."
I'm looking for something like what guitarguygt said "Even if you only charge $10 for song, do not work fore free." That is far better than, "I've been working for 15 years in this business and I think you're a dumba**
Click to expand...

Just to clarify my earlier ravings, I understand that you can't charge what a pro studio charges, what I am saying is that nobody should work for free, you should charge something for your time and for the equipment use. If you start off working for free that what will be expected of you and when you suddenly start to charge the clients that had the free service will move to the next free service.

By making it look like you are worth something (which you are) people will think more of you. It also helps to eliminate the time wasters that will soak up your time and not take it seriously as it's not costing them anything. Charge some hourly fee (stops people wasting time) that you are happy with and that helps you build the business up by buying more gear. Don't forget the hourly fee also makes up for the non-social life you will lead by working in the entertainment industry. Yes, the music industry should be fun, but it should also be professional and a profession.

Alan.
 
you could try to charge a percentage of your gear cost :p
5% of 1000 for a day or something.
I personally would never feel comfortable using someone else and their gear to record me knowing the cost of equipment. I've never been recorded by anyone else. But if they wouldnt accept money or i wouldnt think it was worth money, i would at least by them lunch or something for trying to help me out. At the same time though. at the point im at now though i wouldnt charge. anyone being able to learn to use my stuff and work with other people is fair enough pay for me.
 
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