fretless conversion

  • Thread starter Thread starter mshilarious
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Bruiser,
I Love Pierrot - It's romantics, scary, funny, a twisted story & when the fat lady sings Ohhh, Pierrot I'm in happy land.
It does depend on which version though. The Schoenberg conducts Schoenberg version is my fav (it was the one that I was introduced to the piece with back in 1976) - may be my critical senses are biased by that fact) but most versions work reasonably well. there was a wonderful ballet based on it with the dancers in what seemed like colourful wine bladders. I didn't get to record it sadly. Try listening again with a couple of drinks under your bet in a quiet room & the music up pretty loud. - a translation of the songs helps a lttle for some though I'm much happier just being washed over. I don't get to play it often as my wife can't deal with it at all.
then again I love the Death of Asser by Grieg too (I even learnt to play that one on cello - easy & melodic/drony/tonal/moody).
I did a mash up once in the late 80's of Pierrot/ Bach's Cantata in C minor & the intro of Reed's Berlin for a dance piece it was ccool to see the double takes when the Arnold & Lou bits swung in.
Serioulsy, I got into Schoenberg before I got very far into playing an instrument so my need for the logic & comfort of tonality hadn't fully taken over my mind - I figure I'm pretty lucky.
 
Time to end this thread by invoking Godwin's Law:

Hitler disliked Schoenberg and atonal music in general :p
 
Interesting thread...quick side question.

I'm not a *bass player*...so my skills are rudimentary, but I can lay down enough bass for my needs. One problem I have is due to my lack of regular bass playing, I'll get some fret noise when lifting off the notes..little clinks/dinks at the ends of some notes.
Now I can edit that stuff out easy enough...but reading through this thread it's got me wondering if a fretless bass would completely solve that problem....? :)

Though since I'm not looking for "more crayons", I would still like to have fret-markers, as I like to go for the more typical Western pitches, and as I said, I'm not that proficient on bass to play without any markers.
 
miroslav said:
Interesting thread...quick side question.

I'm not a *bass player*...so my skills are rudimentary, but I can lay down enough bass for my needs. One problem I have is due to my lack of regular bass playing, I'll get some fret noise when lifting off the notes..little clinks/dinks at the ends of some notes.
Now I can edit that stuff out easy enough...but reading through this thread it's got me wondering if a fretless bass would completely solve that problem....? :)

Though since I'm not looking for "more crayons", I would still like to have fret-markers, as I like to go for the more typical Western pitches, and as I said, I'm not that proficient on bass to play without any markers.
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well, it'll solve that problem and because of that it'll sound way different than a standard bass. More like an upright.
For some types of music it'll be great .... for others it won't.
Like anything else it has its pros and cons.
 
Then I may pick up a $200 used fretless "Precision style" on eBay...just to experiment, and still keep/use my other two bass guitars for whatever works best on a given song.
 
miroslav said:
Then I may pick up a $200 used fretless "Precision style" on eBay...just to experiment, and still keep/use my other two bass guitars for whatever works best on a given song.
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that's how I'd go
 
Adolf was, as we all know, vegetarian, hated Cubism, Expressionism, Dadaism, Surrealism, the Blue Rider movement and any non heroic non near photographic representation of objects, (a hangover for being a very 6th rate painter & poor draftsman himself), & fun in general, (well he didn't make it to General so he probably saw no fun it it). The Degenerate Art exhibition put on by the NAZIS was the most popular exhibition of its era - attracting pervs, wowsers and people who had not had the opportunity to see so many modern masterpieces in one place at one time, so much so that it was an outstanding failure/success depending on (a bit like them running the Olympics and it becoming a showcase for Mr Jones).

Thus Godwin's Law stands tall - if Adolf didn't like it: it was probably good.

That he didn't like Schoenberg is a badge of honour for Arnie (& wth a name like that he probably attracted other, more gentically based crits as well).

No serious investment when it's an experiment. A 2nd hand jobbie would be cool.
I don't mind fretlesses & they suit some music better than others - the bassist from Japan had a great slidey style that took full advantage of some of the possibilities.
I agree with Lt. re it's problem solving potential but also prob creating potential.
Fret noise: I know what you mean, but as an aging amateur bass play I have to admit I don't prac. nearly often enough to iron out all such problems in my style.
 
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rayC
I listened to a couple of versions but couldn't wrap my ears round them... I could't see the link to Bach to me he is about as sweet as it goes, especially love his cello pieces.
I've been playing bass for 30 years and still get fret noise - I think it is part of the "sound" like the string noise on an accoustic you would miss it if it wasn't there... If it really offends you maybe try a different setup / up a gauge of string / or adjust the way your fingers approach the string.
I've been playing upright for a couple of years and still have my markers on - really helps when youre swapping about between bass guitar and double bass at a gig.
 
bruiser1964 said:
I've been playing bass for 30 years and still get fret noise - I think it is part of the "sound" like the string noise on an accoustic you would miss it if it wasn't there...
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To be honest, I wouldn't miss the string noise on an acoustic guitar. Since I worked out how to get good pre amp gain, I'm not hung up about recording the acoustic.
I've been playing bass for 2 months short of 30 years and it's only in the last year that fret noise has been an issue and that's because I've been using a more trebly, middly, attacky, percussive sound for some songs. When the bass
is up, there's no string sound. When it's down and the treble and bass are up, then comes the sound.
Flatwound strings can help, but you lose some of that attacking punch.
 
Bruiser,
The only real Arnie/Bach connection is a darkness of tone I think - at least in the one I selected. It was more about juxtaposition. No worries about not being able to get into PL. It's def. not for everyone - & I don't mean that in an elitist sense. I was introduced to it as an 18 year old Westie deeply ingrained with heavy metal, punk & Oz Rock. It struck a chord & has stayed with me since. I was in a big, big darkened room with massive speakers and the recording on vinyl with only the very occasional pop/crackle. the recording was played fairly loudly - in an attempt to simulate concert volume.
I also got into the original (pre keyboard/synth & eye) Residents about the same time & they still hold me attention.
I'm just a sick puppy really.
 


The sad thing is Hitler never even got a chance to hate this, because he shot himself in the head in a fit of depression and had his gasoline-soaked body immolated in a pit a year before this was composed :(

Suicide is never the answer, people. Call for help, talk it out, it will all be OK. Because you're good enough, you're smart enough, and gosh dang it, people like you!
 
That was very cool. SOOO much of this sort of stuff ended up on the soundtracks of horror flicks. Well, . at least it was heard by someone: even if out of context.
It must be insanely difficult to keep time in this piece.
Who are they? I'd like to have had a better look at the viola players hands. Nice showpiece for the cellist. Bit of a rough ending though.
 
OK, my parts from Stew-Mac should arrive soon, that tailpiece thing was out of stock for a while. In the meantime, I have totally wussed out on pulling the fretboard, so I'm planning on filling instead. I have some maple purfling strips on the way, and I picked up some wood epoxy at the store. Stew-Mac was trying to sell me on some water-based wood filler, and I ain't having none of that crap, waterbase is officially my enemy for life! I also got a new pre-cut nut because I have gotten lazy in my old age.

Here's the plan:

- Drill out dots (I have brad point bits and had no trouble setting abalone dots in the uke, so hopefully this goes OK). Filling the dots is more of a question--epoxy only, or do I try to cut a wood veneer to drop in? The smallest hole saw I can find locally is 3/4", and the largest brad point bit I have is 1/2" . . . :confused:

- Glue in maple strips in fret slots, helpfully they are already stained black.

- Epoxy patch a few places around lifted frets (not too much, I did a pretty good job pulling). Should I mix ebony dust in with the epoxy?

- Sand w/ radius block (forgot to order that, grrrr).

- Stain with black saddle dye.

- Seal with . . . I dunno, I have fingerboard oil? Or the lacquer of doom (again, waterbase = my enemy)?
 
mshilarious said:
-epoxy only, or do I try to cut a wood veneer to drop in?
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use epoxy but mix in some of the sawdust from the fretboard that you get when drilling out the holes. It'll color the epoxy to a decent match with the wood.
 
Lt. Bob said:
use epoxy but mix in some of the sawdust from the fretboard that you get when drilling out the holes. It'll color the epoxy to a decent match with the wood.
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There won't be any sawdust as the dots are plastic. Anyway, the fretboard is rosewood (or is pretending to be), but I'll dye the whole thing black before I'm done. I could mix in ebony sawdust as I can generate plenty of that, but my concern was getting the look of woodgrain rather than a plain epoxy fill. I suppose I can fill & sand the board until no grain is apparent anywhere, I suppose that is the best approach . . .
 
oh .... I got it. The board already has plastic dots in it... Really .... since they're dots just make sure to drill an pretty much exact sized hole so the dots almost pop into place . Then there's nothing to fill.
 
If you are going to dill out the dots and I assume these are the side dots get a brad point the right size and a small hand held chuck and just twist them out to a depth of a mm or two then fill with epoxy and dust. Make the dust yourself or you can use any stain as a dye. Doesn't need a lot. If they are face dots drill a small pilot hole bang on centre and use a brad point the correct size. You can some times use heat to get inlay out if you want to save them.

If you fill the fret slots you can should use rosewood and no stain. You can get some dust for the fill by sanding the radius before filling the slots.

If you fill the slots before sanding you can selectively stain the rosewood after sanding and before oiling. Rosewood veneer is pretty cheap and easy to find. Oil with lemon oil anything else will lift the stain and never feel right or wear through pretty quick especially on a fretless unless you use a hard lacquer

Do it right do it once.;)
 
OK, after months of backorder the tailpiece thingy finally arrives and works perfectly, combined with losing the zero fret I'm around 33" scale length now :)

So drilling the dots went fine, then I filled with a "wood epoxy" with some (lots) of ebony dust added, made it look a bit like Corian but that didn't matter as I am staining it black anyway. I sanded down the epoxy tonight, that is nasty dust so I actually wore a mask which I don't usually (I love ebony dust boogers). I don't have the radius block yet, but I stained the board with the saddle black anyway just for fun. The epoxy finishes a bit duller than the rosewood such that the fretlines/dots are kinda visible, but that doesn't bother me too much.

While I wait for the sanding block I am contemplating finishes--I'm leaning towards the hard lacquer approach. I traditionally suck real bad at finishing (don't ask how the shellac on the uke went, it's a sore subject), but I discovered last year that I'd inherited a can of "woodworking lacquer" with the house, the generic kind with a duck decoy on the can. This must be the bad old stuff because it smells horrible, VOC hell, but I finished a shoebench with it anyway. I had to do it outside because of the fumes, but it was dry between coats within an hour and finished the same day and it's the nicest thing I've ever done. No sanding, no filling, no nothing (it's red oak), and it still looks great today. It might be my greatest lifetime achievement.

So I am tempted . . . very tempted . . . to use the "woodworking lacquer". Maybe I'll try a small spot tomorrow . . .

Update: well, the duck let me down, and lacquer sanding sealer wasn't any better. Lifted too much of the stain and left a streaky appearance. Back to good ol' Stew-Mac fretboard oil . . .
 
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