how to reach the average song volume?

[papusnance]

Hi, i have noticed that my recordings and many other people's recordings have a lower volume than the average song , or professional song (whatever)

i heard it usually is like that, but soung engineers have some kind of technique to push up the volume with out distorting the track or making something peak


I tried a software called MP3 Gain, sometimes it works pretty well , some other times it does not... depending on the song but , it often distorts the sound of the song a little bit.


how to sound engineers do this right?

 

[miroslav]

 

[papusnance]

thats pretty helpful ... maybe with popcorn?

 

[miroslav]

I'm just settling in to watch the show...the popcorn is something to snack on.

See...your question has been asked and covered so many times around here (like once a week) that no one is very eager to cover it yet again.
Do some searches...

In a nutshell...yes, mastering engineers have ways of boosting the overall volume of songs. Much of it is done with compression, limiting and some EQ.
How best to do it and in what combination, it depends on the song and it takes some skill.

 

[gecko zzed]

Have a browse through this thread, for example:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/mastering/loudness-wars-~-revisited-clarity-320580/

 

[Massive Master]

A chain with absolutely obscene amounts of headroom doesn't hurt...

But yeah, some people just slap a limiter on it until it starts crying.

 

[papusnance]

I saw the Loudness war post, hahhaha iroslav, now i know wht you meant with that...

 

[papusnance]

I saw the Loudness war post, hahhaha iroslav, now i know what you meant with that !

it seems to be a pretty supid fight in my opinion

I prefer a loudness like the commercial music's loudness, because of the same reasons many people posted... if its not loud many people think that is how it sounds(weak) , and many details cannot be heard at low volume, it basically sounds like a weak or shitty recording (if the knob is not turned up)


Does anybody know about this process?
from what i undersand, it is compression (in order to avoid peaking) and punching the volume up

 

[Mo Facta]

I saw the Loudness war post, hahhaha iroslav, now i know what you meant with that !

it seems to be a pretty supid fight in my opinion

I prefer a loudness like the commercial music's loudness, because of the same reasons many people posted... if its not loud many people think that is how it sounds(weak) , and many details cannot be heard at low volume, it basically sounds like a weak or shitty recording (if the knob is not turned up)

Why don't you just turn it up, then? Are you scared of the volume knob?

It's a sad paradox that people think this way now and if you find yourself in the same head space you can only blame yourself for being taken by the record label mooks who have pushed this loudness agenda onto you. The best thing you can do right now is forget about loudness and focus on making better sounding records.

Does anybody know about this process?
from what i undersand, it is compression (in order to avoid peaking) and punching the volume up

Nope. Wrong.

It's mostly proper frequency balance, i.e. a quality recording and a good mix, a good arrangement and years and years of experience. It's not a limiter. It's not compression. It's not any form of studio clownfuckery. In any case, loudness is not the "thing". Professionals don't set out on a project with an approach steered towards how loud they can make it at the end. Their primary focus is how to best represent the song and it's emotional impact. The sonics thereof go hand in hand and forms part of the aesthetic and art of recording. Loudness is not the art. As Bob Katz says, "It's not how loud you make it, it's how you make it loud." The wisdom is hidden well in that statement.

But if you must smash your music into oblivion whilst destroying its dynamics, use a digital lookahead limiter like the Waves L2 or the free George Yohng's W1, which is a clone of the Waves L1. Everybody else is doing it.

Happy making your records sound loud and crap!

Cheers

 

[miroslav]

Professionals don't set out on a project with an approach steered towards how loud they can make it at the end. Their primary focus is how to best represent the song and it's emotional impact.

Mmmmmmm......while I agree with the overal sentiment in your post, I'm not to sure your statement above is very accurate these days.

I think a lot of pros DO focus very much on that final end-user presentation, and these days a big part of that presentation is loudness...for some, it's even the main part.
It's more at the personal/private level that we may not pay as much attention to it, but then, in the end, just about everyone/anyone that puts up a song ends up comparing it to commercial music. It's only natural to compare.

While I don't agree with the "loudness at any cost" mentality some folks use in order to have LOUDNESS....I do think you need to reach a somewhat competitive loudness "range" with your finished music. It doesn't have to be the loudest thing out there, though you certainly don't want it sounding "small" either, but you should always try to preserve the quality and dynamics in getting to that competitive loundess "range", and it CAN be done.
It just takes more work, and certainly, experience and equipment doesn't hurt.

 

[Mo Facta]

Seriously, dude?

To clarify my point...I certainly would bet on my life that when a music production professional takes on a project his primary goal is not loudness. Obviously he wants the final product to be fantastic. That's a given. But godamned I will be the day that anybody calling himself a pro will make production decisions based on loudness over the quality of the art. I will slit my wrists the day this is the goal because all hope is lost and the art of it is dead.

Most of the time when a record is released loud for the sake of "being competitive" it's a result of label mook paranoia. If an artist or producer insists on this his vision is seriously compromised.

This is fucking sad.

Cheers

 

[miroslav]

You're missing my point.

I'm not saying that during tracking, everyone is thinking about "how loud will the finished album will be?"...
...what I am saying is that in the pro recording world there is always the perspective during production that the final product needs to be commercially competitive with other pro products, AFA style, arrangement, performance, audio quality...and it just so happens that these days one of the big factors is also...loudness.

Why else do you think most pro/commercial CDs all generally fall into a certain commercial loudness range....?
It's not by pure coincidence.

Sure, there may be some that don't follow that trend, but grab any 10-20 pro/commercial releases of Rock/Pop/RAP/R&B/Country, and put them on shuffle mode. I don't think you will find many cuts that fall below the loudness range of the others....so someone/everyone MUST be thinking about loudness during production....they don't get there by accident.

 

[Greg_L]

Happy making your records sound loud and crap!

Lol @ how angry audio snobs get about someone else wanting to make their stuff loud. It doesn't affect you! STFU and let the guy do whatever he wants. Screaming from your soapbox isn't changing anyone's mind.

 

[Murdersgalore]

I will slit my wrists the day this is the goal because all hope is lost and the art of it is dead.

I have two words for you.....Rick Rubin.

So, get in that bathtub and make some pretty pink water.

 

[papusnance]

Ma Facta, nobody said the loudness was more important than the mix... its just a standard, people want their music sounding to a certain volume ... not to the highest volume posible, thats just ridiculous

well i see it senseless to keep fighting about this, so i will not

and... right on Greg_L !


Thanks for the link ! ill try out that software!

 

[Massive Master]

CLIENT: Yeah, is there any way to make this mix -- you know -- Louder?

ME: Well, it's awfully dense -- It just doesn't want to be "loud" being that dense.

CLIENT: Maybe if I drop a couple of those guitar tracks...

ME: (lighthearted attempt at humor) Maybe like 16 of them.

CLIENT: There are only 14 in that part.

ME: Oh... Wow. 14, eh?

 

[Mo Facta]

Audio snob. Ha. That's really funny. Good one, Greg_L! I'm paralytic with hysterics.

I just happen to have a perspective that this type of loudness mind warp that people are stuck in is killing the industry (just like every punter out there that low-balls their rate) It's bringing the industry down and killing those of us that actually make a living out of audio. If you validate it, you're part of the problem.

Just for a show of hands, how many of you besides Massive, actually make a living out of audio and is your primary source of income? And if you do, don't you see the problem in this mentality? Ever wondered why the audio world we used to know is dying? Why does it lack soul and spirit? Why is our art and skill becoming devalued day by day? It is all related, I can guarantee you. Think about it a little.

I for one have a philosophy to fight these ideas so call me a snob if you want.

Cheers

 

[Mo Facta]

Why else do you think most pro/commercial CDs all generally fall into a certain commercial loudness range....?
It's not by pure coincidence.

Ok, I see your point. And no, it's not a coincidence.

However, I think you're putting the blame on the wrong people. I am almost 100% certain that the average commercial loudness that you speak of has nothing to do with the artists or producers of the material. It has everything to do with the label marketing department and the radio pushers who have actually created this mentality. But what about independent material that is also released uber-loud? Well, they are just parroting what they hear the majors do and don't want to be seen as "less pro" because their records aren't as loud. It sounds petty but I will put my last dollar on this being the case. No one will admit it, either. This silly notion that loud=pro is total hogwash and I simply won't stand for it.

Don't let the labels control your volume knob or your mind!

Cheers

 

[gecko zzed]

It's not any form of studio clownfuckery.

awesome!!

 

[miroslav]

It's always easy to blame the labels...those evil, money-hungry labels.

Hey, all it took was one or two big-name CDs to push up the level, then the next guy wanted to match it.
To say that artists/producers/engineers are not guilty and have no say in the final product is rather holy-n-preachy in a Jimmy Swaggart sort of way.
And now days, it's the end-user who has the most control, he will simply skip over anything that is too quiet, relative to the other songs, and that forces the hand of everyone to keep up with the competition.

AFA taking some stand against the loudness....
I use to have some of the same ideas several years ago, but the reality is that if you take a stand...your music will be the stuff that gets skipped over in the CD shuffle.

Mind you, as I already said earlier...I'm not saying we should all be slamming the living crap out of everything right up to the last 0.0001 dBFS without any consideration for the music and only worrying about loudness. I just think that you can be (and it is important to be) competitive level-wise if you are trying to measure up to commercial releases. You can get in the competitive range and still have dynamics and sound quality.
But any notion about returning back to the 1970's levels is just wishful thinking.