Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
this is gonna sound good ........... I mean bad.
B
bruiser1964
Member
Nylon tailgut for double bass: £7.80
Easy nylon fix or TAILPIECE CABLE: Tailgut (tailpiece hanger): Replacing with Stranded Cable - FAQ courtesy of GollihurMusic.com Bobs got a wire mod
Easy nylon fix or TAILPIECE CABLE: Tailgut (tailpiece hanger): Replacing with Stranded Cable - FAQ courtesy of GollihurMusic.com Bobs got a wire mod
muttley600
Banned
Today I pulled the frets and crammed the bridge right up against the tailpiece, so the midpoint is now the old 13th fret. I didn't sand down the board because I didn't pull the strings, so it is "fretting" out a bit. I'm going to leave it in this reversible stage for a week or so before proceeding
I'm thinking with the tailpiece it might work to go the traditional route of wrapping wire around the endpin with some cork to protect the top, that would get the tailpiece quite close to the edge. Of course nylon won't be strong enough, but I have some high-tensile steel wire that would do the trick, just have to figure out how to fasten it without looking vineyard-ghetto . . .
Get one of the nylon tailpiece adjusters from Stewmac. Don't use the violin or cello ones as the thread will strip. You can then mock up any style of tailpiece you a want. The double bass ones are too long for your purpose.
mshilarious
Banned
So the nylon is strong enough eh? OK, that will look quite a lot better. If you look at the existing tailpiece, I can salvage it and just toss out the decorative bit attached, replace with the nylon:
muttley600
Banned
Measure the total length of the nylon you will end up needing and I'll go measure the available length on one of those Adjusters. Save you the time of waiting on it arriving to see if it will work.
crazydoc
Master Baiter
Or you could use some weedeater line if you have some - I have a bunch left over from this project. 
https://homerecording.com/bbs/equip...got-so-tired-paying-$150-bass-strings-116559/
https://homerecording.com/bbs/equip...got-so-tired-paying-$150-bass-strings-116559/
mshilarious
Banned
6" ought to do; current length is 11" so that's about 2.5" back, which seems about right.
mshilarious
Banned
I noticed this dude "giedosst" showed up months later to take a dump on stevieb's similar thread here:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/equip...rsion-could-easy-light-muttley-anyone-318402/
So I thought I'd take a break to make fun of his picture from his website:
Still waiting for his tutorial . . .
https://homerecording.com/bbs/equip...rsion-could-easy-light-muttley-anyone-318402/
So I thought I'd take a break to make fun of his picture from his website:
Still waiting for his tutorial . . .
muttley600
Banned
The two sizes they offer will give you either 6 3/8" max or 7 1/4" max. You can reduce that by about 1 1/2" for the thread on each. At least thats the way the ones I have are cut. Hope this helps.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Perhaps people will be forgiven for sometimes wondering about you.......
Ooooooh !
Aaaaaaah !
Eeeeeeh !
Uuuurrrggghhh !
Zzzzzziiizzz !
Grroooogggghhh !
mshilarious
Banned
Well then we should have a conversion about so-called "modern" or "avant-garde" music and its relation to atonality and especially microtonality. These types of music generally have a bad reputation outside of their practitioners. In particular, popular musicians may regard them as "head" music rather than the preferred style of "feel". Another criticism is that such music is not oriented towards melody. Yet another is that the means are inherently unmusical and largely an exercise in deconstruction; for example, the sax solos which are entirely overblown.
But none of that need be the case. Mr. muttley, as an expert on intonation, would tell you any twelve-tone system is a compromise. Of course there have been experiments in microtonality that expand that to 19 pitches or 31 pitches or what have you, and some other cultures traditionally use what we would consider microtones, even if they might use fewer than twelve pitches at any given time.
All such systems are artificial constructs, which is great when that's what you want to do--they provide a cultural framework where music is quickly understood and accepted by an audience.
Even within a western equal-tempered twelve-tone system, we see accepted deviations from pitch. This occurs when guitarists bend strings or use a trem--or when fretless/upright bassists slide. Since these deviations are transitory, they are acceptable within their cultural framework.
I feel it's best for me to simply ignore that particular framework. Don't get me wrong, what I like to play contains many references to standard styles of music--a surf beat or a walking bass line, for example. I just wish to be free of the framework of pitch within that--but really only on bass; I keep my guitars in standard tuning and temperament, although I like to play them in an atonal style--yet I almost never bend strings. I'm working on the trem though, need to get those skilz up to par, I went my first 25 years without one. Fun!
At the same time, I don't attempt to repeat the experimental music of the past--those barriers are already broken. I am just walking over the stray bricks that litter the landscape, happily focusing on slow, mellow, melodic atonal music.
.
.
.
So far the lack of frets is great, I have more than one note per fret! Loving it Just doing some basics now, for example a walking bass line but only across three frets rather than four, like the spacing you'd use on guitar rather than bass, and the same with arpeggios, etc. A new world of tones! 
But none of that need be the case. Mr. muttley, as an expert on intonation, would tell you any twelve-tone system is a compromise. Of course there have been experiments in microtonality that expand that to 19 pitches or 31 pitches or what have you, and some other cultures traditionally use what we would consider microtones, even if they might use fewer than twelve pitches at any given time.
All such systems are artificial constructs, which is great when that's what you want to do--they provide a cultural framework where music is quickly understood and accepted by an audience.
Even within a western equal-tempered twelve-tone system, we see accepted deviations from pitch. This occurs when guitarists bend strings or use a trem--or when fretless/upright bassists slide. Since these deviations are transitory, they are acceptable within their cultural framework.
I feel it's best for me to simply ignore that particular framework. Don't get me wrong, what I like to play contains many references to standard styles of music--a surf beat or a walking bass line, for example. I just wish to be free of the framework of pitch within that--but really only on bass; I keep my guitars in standard tuning and temperament, although I like to play them in an atonal style--yet I almost never bend strings. I'm working on the trem though, need to get those skilz up to par, I went my first 25 years without one. Fun!
At the same time, I don't attempt to repeat the experimental music of the past--those barriers are already broken. I am just walking over the stray bricks that litter the landscape, happily focusing on slow, mellow, melodic atonal music.
.
.
.
So far the lack of frets is great, I have more than one note per fret! Loving it
Just doing some basics now, for example a walking bass line but only across three frets rather than four, like the spacing you'd use on guitar rather than bass, and the same with arpeggios, etc. A new world of tones!
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
That's hardly surprizing.
When I had my fretless, that was one thing that came as quite a surprize to me, but it was nice to have. It was almost sitar like in terms of quarter tones. In those days though, I wasn't a competent enough player to take the sort of advantage that I'd probably do now. With the fretless acoustic bass guitar, even though it's a cheap shitty thing, as you point out, within one fret is more than one note.So far the lack of frets is great, I have more than one note per fret! Loving it.........Just doing some basics now, for example a walking bass line but only across three frets rather than four, like the spacing you'd use on guitar rather than bass, and the same with arpeggios, etc. A new world of tones!
I was really only kidding in the above post. I've only heard one of your pieces {something to do with 'Orinoco'} and though it was atonal, I liked it. I'm no stranger to the avant garde though I can't take it in large four hour doses. But I dig some of it.
If you ever get a chance, check out an album called "Wipe out" by a group called Amalgam. It's an 8 sided live album. It's intense but a very interesting ride through the avant garde.
mshilarious
Banned
Avant garde gets tiring because a lot of it tries too hard, plus the tempos tend towards faster. Late at night I tend not to listen to "Venus", that's more 3pm.
The last bit I posted was . . . wow, maybe three years ago? I've been really busy these last few years. It was "Orianthi Pet Sounds Rumble"; the bass wasn't much as it was a Rumble track and the rhythm section needs to stay out of the way. I think I just played low D#-C# for the whole track.
Once it became clear that nobody was interested in Rumbles anymore I pretty much stopped recording
Back in the day we had some great Rumbles and I did some fun tracks, like my pastiche of Sixpence None the Richer covering the Ramones . . . or Neil Young covering "Last Caress" 
Anyway, I have an entire surf jazz album in my head but it doesn't seem likely I will get a chance to record any of it for several years at the earliest The object is to have 99 tracks all crossfaded such that I can play it in my car in random order and it's a neverending track. Not sure if the car can track that fast . . .
I am also waiting for my daughters to improve enough on clarinet and trumpet so I can do my mashup of Histoire du Soldat and LL Cool J's "Going Back to Cali"
Then I too will be
enough to wear a Kangol Bermuda Casual
The last bit I posted was . . . wow, maybe three years ago? I've been really busy these last few years. It was "Orianthi Pet Sounds Rumble"; the bass wasn't much as it was a Rumble track and the rhythm section needs to stay out of the way. I think I just played low D#-C# for the whole track.
Once it became clear that nobody was interested in Rumbles anymore I pretty much stopped recording
Back in the day we had some great Rumbles and I did some fun tracks, like my pastiche of Sixpence None the Richer covering the Ramones . . . or Neil Young covering "Last Caress" Anyway, I have an entire surf jazz album in my head but it doesn't seem likely I will get a chance to record any of it for several years at the earliest
The object is to have 99 tracks all crossfaded such that I can play it in my car in random order and it's a neverending track. Not sure if the car can track that fast . . .I am also waiting for my daughters to improve enough on clarinet and trumpet so I can do my mashup of Histoire du Soldat and LL Cool J's "Going Back to Cali"
Then I too will be
enough to wear a Kangol Bermuda Casual
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
^^^^ this ^^^^^^ untimately it's all arbitrary.
If you manage to go your own way on that then more power to ya'.
muttley600
Banned
Well then we should have a conversion about so-called "modern" or "avant-garde" music and its relation to atonality and especially microtonality. These types of music generally have a bad reputation outside of their practitioners. In particular, popular musicians may regard them as "head" music rather than the preferred style of "feel". Another criticism is that such music is not oriented towards melody. Yet another is that the means are inherently unmusical and largely an exercise in deconstruction; for example, the sax solos which are entirely overblown.
But none of that need be the case. Mr. muttley, as an expert on intonation, would tell you any twelve-tone system is a compromise. Of course there have been experiments in microtonality that expand that to 19 pitches or 31 pitches or what have you, and some other cultures traditionally use what we would consider microtones, even if they might use fewer than twelve pitches at any given time.
All such systems are artificial constructs, which is great when that's what you want to do--they provide a cultural framework where music is quickly understood and accepted by an audience.
Even within a western equal-tempered twelve-tone system, we see accepted deviations from pitch. This occurs when guitarists bend strings or use a trem--or when fretless/upright bassists slide. Since these deviations are transitory, they are acceptable within their cultural framework.
I feel it's best for me to simply ignore that particular framework. Don't get me wrong, what I like to play contains many references to standard styles of music--a surf beat or a walking bass line, for example. I just wish to be free of the framework of pitch within that--but really only on bass; I keep my guitars in standard tuning and temperament, although I like to play them in an atonal style--yet I almost never bend strings. I'm working on the trem though, need to get those skilz up to par, I went my first 25 years without one. Fun!
At the same time, I don't attempt to repeat the experimental music of the past--those barriers are already broken. I am just walking over the stray bricks that litter the landscape, happily focusing on slow, mellow, melodic atonal music.
.
.
.
So far the lack of frets is great, I have more than one note per fret! Loving it
Essentially atonal music is about moving away from both historical constructs and physical constructs. The musicality involved is entirely down to the concept and it's realisation. Whether people accept the result is entirely irrelevant. You go for it.
Having said that there are sound reasons (good pun) why certain intervals are inherently pleasing and others not so.... We are wired that way to some degree and physics demonstrate that. That is not good reason to explore, combine or incorporate other ideas.
I'm not sure I would begin on the bass though....
muttley600
Banned
I wouldn't go as far as to say they are artificial. Most of our current western musical model has been arrived at after a good deal of examination and consideration. From the Baroque to now things have been taken as a start point for good reason. One of the things that always has and always will frustrate me musically both playing and listening is that there is only so much we can do with perfect intervals before we run out of directions to take it. Example, we no longer even consider perfect intervals as important....
mshilarious
Banned
That's an important point. We have arrived at a juncture where the pace of musical change has slowed dramatically, and I don't mean in terms of pitch only or even harmony. Take for example the highly controversial (in its day) style of disco--its heyday was what, four years? But if we look to modern trends in R&B, we see that Autotune is in year twelve of being faddish.
This is unexpected because the pace of change had accelerated for all of recorded history up until we seemingly ran out of ideas somewhere around 1971 (give or take a few years according to style of music). This is possibly on account of my birth, or alternatively the death of Stravinsky.
Stravinsky's an interesting guy because I think he was possibly the last composer who would have been considered progressive at some point of his career (much of it, actually) who is widely accepted by the casual listening public. Before Stravinsky, everybody wanted to hear the latest greatest, after him, OK maybe one piece by Shostakovich or Barber, then let's have Brahms again please
Somewhere the train went off the rails, and the same thing happened with jazz. The "rebellious" art form, rock & roll, never accepted even mild forms of experimentation as mainstream, at least after the drugs wore off in . . . 1971.
I think bass is a great place to start because nobody is listening, so you can do all kinds of subversive things. Let's start with the realization that unfretted bassists have been playing notes outside of equal temperament for a very long time. In your basic walking line, the b7 on the tonic should be two fourths up, but I play it closer to a natural b7 (corresponding to the seventh harmonic) which will not match either two equal tempered fourths nor two perfect fourths.
If listeners can thus get acclimated to a wider selection of pitches we'll have more crayons in the box.
The first step is don't play a fretless with lines on the board; a few side markers OK, but please no lines. Color outside of them every now and then!
rayc
retroreprobate
Stavinsky I can cope with but if we talk atonal then I'd prefer Schoenberg's tone poem/atonal period (particularly Pierrot Lunaire) as it was/is sparser. As a bass player & person of extremely limited guitar chord memory (I can muster a doz I think) I play outside of well seasoned quite a bit: though still well tempered in the fret sense.
I saw a documentary that blamed the Piano Accordian for the destruction of microtonality because it penetrated deeper into folk & ethnic music than the new fangled piano forte and forced the issue amongst poor village musicians who had to compete with the volume of the P/accordian and play along with it as well.
Listen to any of my songs and you'll hear chordings or bass notes that aren't quite right/wrong simple because I don't hear right anymore.
I'm going to do some research on the development of acclimated as a verb as opposed to acclimatized. It's bugged me for a while along with predated instead of preyed. I initially assumed it was U.S. English but that may simply be my antipodean prejudices coming to the fore.
I saw a documentary that blamed the Piano Accordian for the destruction of microtonality because it penetrated deeper into folk & ethnic music than the new fangled piano forte and forced the issue amongst poor village musicians who had to compete with the volume of the P/accordian and play along with it as well.
Listen to any of my songs and you'll hear chordings or bass notes that aren't quite right/wrong simple because I don't hear right anymore.
I'm going to do some research on the development of acclimated as a verb as opposed to acclimatized. It's bugged me for a while along with predated instead of preyed. I initially assumed it was U.S. English but that may simply be my antipodean prejudices coming to the fore.
mshilarious
Banned
I dig Schoenberg too, but he's the guy that makes my point: the average classical audience won't accept anything of his on the playbill. Maybe some of his earliest stuff that is still kinda Expressive. Most people cannot tolerate Pierrot; I used to play that when I wanted people to leave my room in college.
Sadly, Bach's famous Chaconne usually worked equally well. People are mostly philistines (which is really an ethnic slur when you think about it!)
Sadly, Bach's famous Chaconne usually worked equally well. People are mostly philistines (which is really an ethnic slur when you think about it!)
B
bruiser1964
Member
thought I'd expand my musical universe and take a listen to Pierrot Lunaire... nope! it's sounds to me like someone randomly throwing musicians (admittedly talented ones) off a multi story car park into a pit filled with broken glass and recording the results. Not for me