Mixing Live Performances

[itaughttremonti]

How much do you mix a live performance? Do you leave it as it is and go for the "performance captured" or do you touch it up here and there to give it a nice shine?

Was just wondering..dastrick and I recorded our praise team yesterday (just a small acoustic set) and went through the board into my firestudio. We used the inserts on the board so we got the post-fader sound that was "mixed" for the FOH needs. The tracks came out pretty well from my limited chance to listen, but could use a little shaping imo. It just got me thinking about what everyone else's thoughts on this scenario was. Mess with live reocrdings or leave em be?

 

[Mr. ROUSH]

I don't do a lot of live mixing stuff, but my sister is in a successful cover band and they record all of their performances.. my brother-in-law consults with me sometimes on mixing.. without doing some mixing, it's not as enjoyable to listen to most of the time.. I think the trick is to mix it to make it sound better without taking away the live feel of the performance.. and probably at the end of the day it would just depend on how well the performance was captured to begin with.. if it sounds great without additional mixing and effects.. don't fix it if it ain't broke.. but I think more often than not you would likely end up needing to compensate for anything that just sounds bad at the very least.. vocals can be challenging to control depending on the dynamics of the singer. There are usually a lot more quiet vocal phrases due to the singer moving around etc.. basically their vocals have almost always needed some compression and eq at least to level things out.. I would say that if your intentions are to sell a live cd then either the performance needs to be perfect.. captured perfectly to sound good without mixing.. or otherwise if it doesn't quite sound good and lively then I think mixing and effects become essential.. in any event I don't think a live performance should ever be mixed or processed to the point that it no longer sounds like it was performed live.. I think crowd/room mics are also essential to further isolate everything to really make a good mix of a live performance.. multi-processing goes a long way with mixing live stuff if you ask me.

 

[moresound]

I mix live for a living and I mean a lot of live sound mixing. I support a family of 9 doing so.
I went through the the whole mix live and record every track phase which is nice yet I've ended up just recording the past few years with a Zoom H4n.
Two stereo microphones and two aux feeds from the board then mix those tracks.
Everyone seems very happy with the results both on the recordings and the live mix.

 

[itaughttremonti]

Thanks for the input.

@moresound: Being in a place of worship, the "sound team" is made up of volunteers. I would love to just bus it out and go off of the live mix, but with a team of volunteers, no one is really a live sound engineer, so to speak lol. I'm grateful for them when we are on stage, but past the "yellow knob, the red knob, and the fader"...we're not gonna get much help on that end. I also was in the acoustic ensemble so it had to be sort of a "set and forget". Maybe one day we'll fork over the money to have you record us with your expertise!

@Mr. Roush: I failed to get room mics involved due to time constraints with setup and practice...thanks for the mixing advice!

 

[moresound]

I know same thing in my church!

I only donate equipment I don't run the sound there for I'm on the road to much to make a two or three day commitment every week.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

I mix live for a living and I mean a lot of live sound mixing. I support a family of 9 doing so.
I went through the the whole mix live and record every track phase which is nice yet I've ended up just recording the past few years with a Zoom H4n.
Two stereo microphones and two aux feeds from the board then mix those tracks.
Everyone seems very happy with the results both on the recordings and the live mix.

Intriguing! What genre(s) have you used this combination with?

 

[moresound]

From one side to the other in a music festival setting ..... rap to hard core back to folk then onto pop.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

Very interesting; I didn't know a board mix/stereo mic combo alone would give you the flexibility to create good live mixes, particularly when it comes to heavier music (being the white noise generator that it often is). Do you have any samples up? Perhaps I don't need to be taking as much gear as I have been!

 

[bouldersoundguy]

We used the inserts on the board so we got the post-fader sound that was "mixed" for the FOH needs.

The only board I've ever heard of with post-fader inserts was the original Mackie CR1604. Otherwise inserts are generally pre-everything except HPF, though many recording board have the inserts after the eq section.

 

[Steve Henningsgard]

The only board I've ever heard of with post-fader inserts was the original Mackie CR1604. Otherwise inserts are generally pre-everything except HPF, though many recording board have the inserts after the eq section.

For whatever reason, the board I most recently got direct outs from was post-fader as well. I'll try to get the make/model, but it baffled me.

 

[moresound]

Very interesting; I didn't know a board mix/stereo mic combo alone would give you the flexibility to create good live mixes, particularly when it comes to heavier music (being the white noise generator that it often is). Do you have any samples up? Perhaps I don't need to be taking as much gear as I have been!

Yeah Steve. I'll find a few links and post them up.

 

[moresound]

For whatever reason, the board I most recently got direct outs from was post-fader as well. I'll try to get the make/model, but it baffled me.

HERE is a small venue one, check out the videos --- those are just a few from years past and nothing very heavy shown there but this years shows where some heavy hitters like Thurston Moore and others.


I'll look for more venues that are out there on the webs but the sound quality isn't going to be what is to be a good representation due to youtube squash and such.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

For whatever reason, the board I most recently got direct outs from was post-fader as well. I'll try to get the make/model, but it baffled me.

Direct outs are different from inserts. Older boards typically have them post fader, a feature that was handy when recording to tape because it let you record with fader moves saving you time later on. Most boards designed in the DAW age have pre-fader direct outs because it's so easy to do it later that post-fader is no longer an advantage. Many are easily changed with a jumper inside the board.

 

[itaughttremonti]

I'm not 100%, but I'm almost positive that our Allen & Heath board (well, the churches board) is post-fader inserts. I actually -didn't- want that, from what I've described earlier in my posts, but that's how we got it. It's definitely vocal heavy and light on the band stuff. I'm impressed with the ZoomH4n thing...that thing looks like a beast!

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Wait a second, are you talking about something that's already mixed? This

How much do you mix a live performance? Do you leave it as it is and go for the "performance captured" or do you touch it up here and there to give it a nice shine?

implied it was multi-tracked. You can't mix a mix, except from stereo to mono. If you were recording the main mix, well of course that would be post channel inserts.

 

[itaughttremonti]

Edit. Nothing to see.

 

[moresound]

You will really like the zoom H4n versatility. If you decide to get one get a hold of me and we'll talk.

 

[moresound]

HERE is a picture from an other thread of me setting the stereo microphone that is going to the zoom.

 

[itaughttremonti]

And the face remains hidden from view! The zoom thing is a bit out of my current budget for something like that right now...but maybe one day I'll get one and chat you up about it.

 

[moresound]

There are a few other pictures in there of me. Look for the Vermont moose hat!
You should be looking for a H4n used!!!