Sounding Tinny, take a listen

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Bisson820

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Hey guys,

by glancing through other threads that people ahve posted i realize i will probably just get flamed by the "guru's" here but i have seen there are a ton of helpful guys on here aswell so i was hoping to get some insight!

Anyways, this past weekend my band has done soem serious recording to this track and we are zeroing in on the final product using Logic Pro 9

As it is not done being mixed in obvious spots, i tend to "test master" after every session to listen in my car and on my ipod and what have you...

I have noticed time and time again that it sounds amazing on my monitors (KRK Rockit 6's) but when i get it into the car it sounds tinny... like... it gets painful after a few times through and my ears are just exhausted.

I have a few questions, an i will post the song here aswell. (as aforementioned, it is not fully mixed and thats obvious in some places)

But anyways!

1.) is it simply because its not mixed and some spots are deffinately louder?

2.) Is it a simple solution as working the EQ in he master?

3.) is it best to try to find the isolated "tinny" tracks? (im not sure how i would even go about that)

4.) is it something that i am too ignorant to understand? and can you fill me in on it?

Thanks for your time!!

enjoy the song :)

Captives of Gravity August 7th Version by Seconds To September on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
 
Is it a common thing to master a track that isn't finished ? I don't know if it's a common practice but it seems odd to me to master a track that you've not finished mixing because there are bound to be 'unbalances'.
 
unbalances arent what im concerned with. if you read my post you'd realize why i was mastering an unfinished mix, because im trying to hear what it will sound like within other systems, and i've consistently noticed a tinny-ness, any ideas?
 
Bad room is a definite. did you hear the track? can you hear the tinnyness im talking about?

so no, i cannot trust the room im in at all, since its a basement... (wonderful i know, but the actual studio is still in construction)

do you think it is something that could be fixed by EQ of the master track? is that a no-no?

i've tried to research this stuff but i've had a hard time finding answers
 
mix first, master later and defo treat your room. its a bit like showing a half finished picture in a gallery and calling it potential.
 
When we're talking about "mastering" here are we just ramming the mix into a limiter?

Are you making sonic decisions based on listening --- in a bad environment --- and then making those decisions again - in the same environment?

Yes - It's most definitely "tinny" (I'd call it more "really harsh" in the top). There's no real definition in the lows either. Sounds like some really weird phase problems in the low end also. Or maybe the bass is just panned off to the side...

In any case - "Working the EQ in the master" is most definitely not the fix... Finishing the mix would be a start. Finding the "tinny" parts in the mix is easy - If it's not, find out why it's not.

Hopefully not being taken as a "flame" -- But if the really, really basic stuff isn't coming easy, it's a symptom of a much larger problem. Could partially be the monitoring chain, the space is likely having an obvious impact -- It all goes back to those "two rules of audio."
 
I haven't used the RP6's, but if they're anything like the RP5's I can without a doubt say they are the issue. Their reproduction below 40 is muddy-to-nill, and the drop-off in the high and makes anything above 10khz pretty much a guessing game. Judging by your mix, I'd bet that's what's getting you.
 
Massive Master, no flame at all, thats exactly what I'm looking for. and yes, it is "really harsh" as you appropriately diagnosed it. Im kind of stuck in the situation im in as far as the room goes untill the rooms being built stricly for this purpose are finished, which wont be in the immediate future.

Would you mind if i picked your brain a bit, i would love to hear some of your wisdom.

as far as the low end goes, i feel as tho the kick is a little Boomy compared to the punch that is really the desired sound for this song.

I feel im a BIT over my head but i think i've done better than the average noob :P

as far as what im calling "Mastering" is, admittedly, mostly just getting the output volume to what it is that you've heard.

would you mind helping me out?



Steve - I love the sound that the 6's are giving me while im down there, but i guess their accuracy is troubling me? and i've heard a LOT of good about them, i think my biggest issue is the room i am in.
 
kip4 said:
mix first, master later and defo treat your room. its a bit like showing a half finished picture in a gallery and calling it potential.
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and i dont want to be rude, but i wouldnt consider this forum a picture gallery, rather a place of learning

... aaaand im not showing it to say "here look what i've done" with a smile on my face, morely letting it be heard to analyze the problem i am trying to present
 
Bisson820 said:
Steve - I love the sound that the 6's are giving me while im down there, but i guess their accuracy is troubling me? and i've heard a LOT of good about them, i think my biggest issue is the room i am in.
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YMMV, of course, but I was *really* surprised when I AB'd against better monitors, particularly when it came to the high-end. I couldn't believe how much easier it was to get the high- and low- end right (although I certainly have a lot to learn, for sure).
 
i respect and appreciate your modesty, most forums can be full of self righteous people that are just as nooby as myself haha! but that can be a down the road idea but in the mean time i dont have the funds to really compare nevermind purchase new monitors.

I think me being in a basement is a big culprit... also i surely need to train my ears, this is my first REAL project that im doing.. i've always kinda tinkered with recording on my own with noob gear... but im really crackin down on what i love to do and i have read that you gotta train your ears and "know yourmonitors"

i need to be able to TRUST my ears, and i cant say that i do quite yet.
 
as far as the low end goes, i feel as tho the kick is a little Boomy compared to the punch that is really the desired sound for this song.
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That's going to be an issue until (A) the speakers you're using are capable of reproducing the frequencies you're trying to tweak *and* (B) the room you're in is able to support those frequencies.
 
ok... so any advice in the mean time? im not sure what i can do with that given my situation.

kind of sounds like your saying that unless i have a better room and better monitors im SOL... is there really NOTHING i can do in the mean time? i find that hard to believe...
 
Bisson820 said:
ok... so any advice in the mean time? im not sure what i can do with that given my situation.

kind of sounds like your saying that unless i have a better room and better monitors im SOL... is there really NOTHING i can do in the mean time? i find that hard to believe...
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I think what a couple of people are trying to tell you is not that there's no hope, but that you need to work on the mix before you even think about mastering.
 
Thanks for the clarification RAMI, im not trying to be difficult and i love the help, i have a hard time getting across what i mean and i tend to sound like an ass when im not trying to, so please bear with me :P

im condluding that i need to find where the harshness is coming from. any frequency ranges to look out for? maybe i have a harsh frequency too pumped on too many things without even realizing it.
 
Bisson820 said:
ok... so any advice in the mean time? im not sure what i can do with that given my situation.

kind of sounds like your saying that unless i have a better room and better monitors im SOL... is there really NOTHING i can do in the mean time? i find that hard to believe...
Click to expand...
Falls back to the "two rules" --

1) No matter your years of experience, concentration of listening skills, (etc., etc., etc., etc.), you will only ever be able to hear as well as your monitoring chain allows you to hear. No exceptions.

2) No matter how many (hundreds, thousands, tens-of-thousands of) dollars you have invested into your monitoring chain, your chain will only ever be as accurate and consistent as the room they're in allows them to be. No exceptions.

I'm not saying there's *nothing* you can do about it -- I'm just saying that there really isn't any way around the physics.
 
That said, a good set of headphones when used in combination with (as in, A/Bing with) your monitors, can really improve your knowledge of the monitors you have, and give you another perspective on your mix. But yeah, if your monitors don't reproduce a frequency, you can't really expect to have much control over it. It'd be like beating yourself up for not decorating with the infrared visual spectrum in mind. You can't see it, how the fuck are you supposed to do anything about it?
 
Massive Master said:
Falls back to the "two rules" --

1) No matter your years of experience, concentration of listening skills, (etc., etc., etc., etc.), you will only ever be able to hear as well as your monitoring chain allows you to hear. No exceptions.

2) No matter how many (hundreds, thousands, tens-of-thousands of) dollars you have invested into your monitoring chain, your chain will only ever be as accurate and consistent as the room they're in allows them to be. No exceptions.

I'm not saying there's *nothing* you can do about it -- I'm just saying that there really isn't any way around the physics.
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oy... i see.... so it seems like we are in need of those rooms we are constructing a lot sooner than i orignially thought :/

in the mean time i am also going to go into the EQ of individual tracks and make sure they arent too boosted around 1-2khz, as i've read that this frequency range can develop harsh sounds in things such as symbols and guitars and vocals.

Mixing is a LOT harder than i had anticipated. im learning that its not so much making each instrument sound the best they possibly can and then mixing their levels... there is a much grander picture than that.

am i wrong in saying this? the philosophy i have about it is each instrument needs to reflect off eachother on a sonic and tonal level, rather than each individual instrument sound its best when isolated.

oy.. its fun being an amateur :P
 
Hey thats a good track! Is tinny the way the snare and vox kind of sound, like they aren't deep enough?
The name of the band is pretty lame though...
 
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