Trouble getting a good snare tone.

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Re-tox_stl

Re-tox_stl

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Hey all. So this past week I have been laying down some scratch tracks with a buddy of mine, for a little side project were working on. The style is kind of like a hybrid between matchbox 20 and John Mayer (if you can at all picture that [I'll post clips when were done]). Now usually when the time would come to record drums I would just sample the kick and snare (mainly out of laziness, shame shame on me). This time though, I am trying to go for a very natural, open drum sound if you know what I mean. Everything sounds awesome except for the fact that my close mic on the snare (sm57) sound very quiet, flat and lifeless.

Now before you go pointing fingers, yes my drums are tuned with new heads and all, and yes, they sound good in my room as is. I just can't get the snare to translate through the 57. It's just dead and lifeless. Any one have any advice?

Oh and I'll post audio tomorrow when my family isn't upstairs sleeping :)

Thanks, Drew
 
I'd say try an Audix i5 on the snare, but you probably don't have one lying around.

I had the opposite problem. I first started using the SM57, then switched to the i5 because "it wasn't an SM57." And I figured that the scooped mids on the i5 would work well on the snare, strengthening its fundamental and the crispness to it. Well for the past year I've been unhappy with the snare sound....there's the annoying high-end quality I couldn't quite put my lips on. So I decided to switch back to the SM57, and it sounds better!

The i5 has slightly boosted highs, so it might not make it so flat?

Have you tried changing positions for the mic? Applying reverb to the snare?
 
Thanks for the feedback seafroggys, and no, I dont have an i5 laying around lol.

I have done some experimenting with positions though, and most everything I try still yields un-satisfactory results. Maybe I just need to try harder :).

I guess it could just be that I haven't done any processing yet. I mean I know it will sound loads better with some compression, reverb and what have you, but I guess I was just trying to get the best dry sound possible being that thats what everyone says to do lol.
 
A couple thoughts.
A lifeless snare could benefit from adding a bottom mic on the snare. Picking up the vibrating snares can help add some zip and life to your snare sound. Just make sure to get all your phase relationships right - ie it's usually a good idea to reverse the polarity on that bottom mic on the way in to make sure it's (relatively) in phase with the top mic.
If you can't add another mic or adding one doesn't get the sound you want, the above suggestion to change the mic position can get you there. Whenever you're close micing anything, it doesn't take very much of a positioning change to get a big change in the sound (consider the huge tonal difference you get in the four-or-so inch difference between micing the dust cover and the edge of a guitar amp's speaker cone).
Consider making larger movements as well. I've had great results micing the port on the side of the snare (just make sure to mic it from an angle so that every snare hit doesn't cause a blast of air to hit the diaphragm), especially on steel snares.
I often get a lot of the life, depth, air, openness, etc of my snare from the room mic(s). Are you using any?
If yes, and your snare still sounds small and lifeless and dull and etc..., i dunno, maybe try a different snare or have your drummer hit it a little harder (or maybe tighten the snares to get them zingin a little more).
If you aren't using any, try this. Set up a room mic somewhere where it really captures that bloom and openness and life you're looking for from your snare (either by itself or in combination with the close mic). So as not to mess with the rest of your sound (since you said you were happy with all the rest), your ideal situation would be one where this mic only picks up the snare and not the rest of the kit. You can accomplish something like this by recording both this mic and the close mic on the snare, then putting a gate with sidechaining capabilities on the distant mic. Key this gate with a send from your close mic so that it only opens when the snare hits. This will keep this mic from interfering with the rest of your kit's sound, but give you the big open snare sound you're looking for.
Hope some of that helps. Good Luck.
 
Try moving the mic an inch or two outside the rim. That should open up the sound considerably, but it will also get more hihat bleed.
 
I've found I get the best snare sound by miking the rim. I point an SM57 directly at the rim from about 2" away at 45 degrees. I then boost at about 125Hz, 10K and 5K. I always find the snare needs dampening more than it does live. I put wither an e ring or a beermat on the top head. Works for me :)
 
Backing the mic of 4"-6" can help. What other mics do you have?
 
If the snare is well-tuned and sounds good live, you don't need to bottom-mic or dampen to get a better sound....although you could. Its very easy to capture a great snare sound with one mic.

Backing the mic up is a good idea too.
 
A solo'd snare mic doesn't sound "good", really. It will often sound duller than what you expect. Combining it with your overheads, which is where I get about 85% of my snare sound, is where it becomes useful.

But try the above suggestions. They're all good, especially moving the mic around and experimenting with positioning.

One thing I do when I track is I slightly loosen the snare wires so that they resonate just a touch longer than I would like them to. I find it helps them cut through more when they're combined with a whole mix of guitars, bass, vocals, etc....
 
Thanks for all the help guys. I have been experimenting all morning and found that I like the tone I get from placing it 2" off the rim at a 45 the best. But Rami your right. I was just listening to it solo'd, but when I added in the over heads and the room mic, it opened it up a ton.

Drew
 
if i remember correctly a friend of mine mentioned errrrr whats it called now
moon dust
i think not sure if im barking up the wrong tree here (im no drummer ) but they say its good might be worth checking out
 
ooops yep i was barking up the wrong tree its for damping and its called moongel lol
 
This might have already been said - I haven't read the replies.

You'll probably find you get the attack from the 57 but the body will come from the overheads.

I have a 57 on my snare, my method is: rest my fist (knuckles facing to the side) on the rim of my snare and aim the at the centre. I have it that high off the rim because I try to get a bit of body in the 57 and because I have a 13" steel snare so if it was any lower it'd be too full of kangy overtones.
 
If you think about where you are in relation to the drum kit when it sounds good to you, try placing a mic there also, it could really give the snare a totally different sound. It's not unlike the overheads which are usually several feet away from the snare.

Just food for thought.
Good luck.
 
RAMI said:
A solo'd snare mic doesn't sound "good", really. It will often sound duller than what you expect. Combining it with your overheads, which is where I get about 85% of my snare sound, is where it becomes useful.
Click to expand...

Exactly my approach. I obsessed about getting a great sound from the kick and overheads, and the rest matters a lot less.
 
Thank god for plugins. I never have to touch a mic and my drummer never gets drunk and tries to bang my girlfriend. :D
 
RAMI said:
A solo'd snare mic doesn't sound "good", really. It will often sound duller than what you expect. Combining it with your overheads, which is where I get about 85% of my snare sound, is where it becomes useful
Click to expand...
You know, I'm really glad that's come from someone who drums good and records good and mixes good. Ever since I started separately miking the drums, I've noted that almost always the overhead snare sound is preferable to the solo miked snare. I thought my shitty mics had finally caught up with me ! I could never work out why the snare track always seemed so much duller than I thought it would.
 
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