Searching for the Right Home Recording Software

[spackler]

I've been looking around and can't seem to find a recent thread covering this sort of ground, so if there's one I missed -- sorry for the clutter. If not...

I'm looking to purchase new software for a new Windows 7 Machine. In the past I've used Sony Vegas' product, which is now a good 7 years old. I've not used it for a while, and never really mastered any of its higher level functionality, so I'm prepared to rebuild with whatever software makes the most sense. So, I'm pretty much trying to build a good pros and cons checklist among the primary vendors... I'm looking at

• Cakewalk Sonar X1
• Cubase 6
• Propellerhead Record

I'm not looking at

• ProTools
• Apple's Logic

But figure it's helpful to include them for those maybe considering. I guess I'm looking for opinions on these options as to pros and cons. I'll explain what I'm doing to provide guidance / context for those opinions. Hopefully future folks kicking around the same question will read the thread, gather what they need, and then post a few things about their own situations if they don't feel the thread so far gives them enough information.

Style / Artistry I do guitar (electric guitar and bass and acoustic guitar), keys, cajon and basic percussion, and vox. Music I want to record is everything from basic acoustic / vox harmony tunes, to full-out rock. Music influences that are expressed in my own writing / ideas are varied, everything from bluegrass, Richard Thompson, Grateful Dead, to Ween, Radiohead, to Broken Social Scene, to The Strokes... Super Fury Animals... the Talking Heads. Being a bit old school, I used to scoff at overt tech/software-produced instrumentation/sounds (meaning, Reason-like functionality was meaningless to me, I'm now very open to pushing into that area, although I'm a complete newb in that respect. I'm totally re-listening to Fat Boy Slim recently, and can't believe I totally blew it off at one point... At the same time I'm totally digging Hiromi.

Bottom line, I want the flexibility to push in a variety of directions and don't to bang my head into too many systems based ceilings apart from those that go along with lack of knowledge, although from what I'm reading these days, that's getting really hard to do.


Experience -- I've only used recording software in the most rudimentary fashion -- 10-12 tracks at most, vox, guitar, base, very basic hand drums, then modified by adding simple compression and reverbs/delays. Old setup was never taken too seriously since I was more into the rawness of it all, and always expected that "someday" I'd get more serious about building a proper setup.

Equipment accumulated that I will use /or may or may not need given what I'm reading...

• Brand new custom build Win 7 PC with mucho processor/ RAM headroom
• M-Audio Firewire 410 which runs two channels in + Midi
• Two Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro 12 Channel Mixers
• Yamaha MM8 Keyboard
• MXL Condensor Mic
• Pod XT
• ART Studio VS Tube MP Preramp

Objectives

I am, right now, wanting to flesh out ideas and produce my music mostly as a multi-instrumentalist / solo artist. I want a professional end product for the end-consumer and for building interest among collaborating artists.

In that, smaller objectives include:

1. Better Drums -- In the past I've been drum deficient, and I want to have the capacity to build in convincing drum work into my self-produced materials.
2. Ability to construct loops / digi music
3. More professional sound
4. MIDI integration -- never used it before.

So, those goals I recognize mean I have a lot of learning to do, which I'm ready to embark upon... My concern / the purpose of creating this thread is that since I'm starting over system-wise, I don't want to find I've gone down the wrong path and regret having sunk the money and mental capital into the wrong system / learning curve. I don't want to blow cash. This is my push to really do this right vs. half-assed, but with limited time with a non-music full time job, I don't want to screw around doing it wrong. Part of me understands that the only way to really know in the end is to immerse yourself into it and just get your feet wet from experience. But everyone also knows its best to measure twice, cut once...

That said, my current thinking is in order of pecking order is first to go with Propellerhead Record & Reason combo --

Pros --

• This package seems to combine most of the tools I want to have in one package.
• What I hear (mostly through their PR) is that it's a system for musicians and not producers, meaning it's more musician / artist intuitive, and less Ph.D. Producer focused.
• Record's easy integration with Reason seems a natural for some of the areas I want to grow.

Cons (with my rationalizations...)

• Record is fairly new, so I'm a bit concerned about how developed it is vs its peers. No doubt, Propellerhead is an experienced company, but a new platform is a new platform.
• I can't help but think it will have limits in the production side -- but given my level of experience, those won't be hit for a while, and moreover, I can't imagine the software won't grow over time to be more on par with the peers.
• I've heard (need confirmed) that Propellerhead isn't as open as other systems to third-party apps / plugin... (although, doesn't Reason/Record covers most ground anyway?)
• No 64-Bit software version... Kinda surprising given it's 2011, but I appreciate they want to 32bit backwards compatibility for existing users efficiency... Their are tons of 32-bit Reason users who are excited by this, and that they probably want critical mass before sinking the cash into the 64 bit core. But starting from scratch, the idea of 64-bit from the ground up weighs in vs. converting 2 years down the road and having the older version crudging up system resources since you can never seem to fully remove old software.

Number 2 is Sonar X1

Pros

• Seems to have more production headroom / background
• 64 bit
• Embraced by industry
• Both native and 3rd-party plugin convenience for covering ground similar to reason, and with more versatility maybe?
• total rewrite -- interface geared to more visual simplicity for artists vs. expert producers

Cons

• complexity / too production expertise focused??

Cubase 6

Many of the same pros (64 bit rewrite) and cons as Sonar X1, but not as easy to use for artists. Visually still somewhat complex / not as intuitive.

ProTools 9

While it remains the Pro Studio industry standard, and is great if you're expecting to share files among ProTools users, cons include:

• More expensive vs. competition when considering feature and benefits.
• Visual interface dramatically lagging peers above convenience wise / less intuitive
• Much harder to learn than the peers above

Apple Logic

No Windows, so I've nothing to say... but included since many apple users may have questions as thread develops.

**


So, with all that thrown out there, I totally appreciate any and all insight other forum contributors are able to throw out there for those of us currently in my situation.

Many, many, many thanks in advance!!!

-- Spackler

 

[itaughttremonti]

Save money and d/l reaper.

 

[c7sus]

I'm using Sonar 8.5PE. If you go the Sonar route get the Sonar Power book to walk you through the features. Well worth the $$$. Steep learning curve IMHO. Check out the tutorials in Youtube of the DAW software you are interested in before you buy. They all have essentially the same features, but they have different GUI's and a lot of the features are buried in drop-down menus. Some MIDI editing features can be done IRT while others are only available post tracking.

Reaper is cheapest in price but as full-featured as any of the others. But you have to manually assign and point to VST's etc that Sonar would integrate automatically. Once you get it set up it works great, but the setup can be a PITA.

For hardware I'd get an interface with at LEAST 4 inputs and outputs. The extra I/O comes in handy for outboard processing, setting up two mixes at once, etc; and you just never have enough of either when you want them.

I'd also go with a stand-alone MIDI interface like a MIDIsport4x4, although you may run into problems trying to use multiple USB MIDI ports at once depending which recording software you use if the Yammy is USB-based.

For soft drums check out SuperiorDrummer2 from Toontrack. Not cheap, but great samples and lot's of 'em. Drag-and-drop MIDI files, build your kits, full editing with DSP FX included. You might wanna start with EZDrummer first, and do a crossgrade later. If you go with EZDrummer you'll want to get the EZProPlayer to go with it for editing MIDI loops. Very powerful tool there. EZDrummer doesn't have as many features as SD2, and not as many samples of each instrument but still pretty good sounding drums. Some people complain about the authorization scheme Toontrack uses but I haven't had any problems with it and you can download and use the software immediately if you buy through Sweetwater. Sweetwater also has all the EZDrummer line on sale right now too.

 

[moresound]

Save money and d/l reaper.

You'll get about ten more of these responses.

 

[JB's Studio]

I'm doing pretty much what you are on Win XP. I don't have an intention of going to 7 and to a 64 bit host until my 3rd party plugins and VIs are available in 64 bit.

You can add Presonus Studio One Pro to the list. It comes in both 32 bit and 64 bit. Download the demo. It is fully functional (as S1 Artist) for 30 days. It will recognize your current VST plugins, but when you install it you'll have to tell it where to look for them. Give it a try. Studio One Link. This has ADC. I will say the support thus far on this product has been great. Check out the user forums to get an insight. A lot of people have gone over to it from Sonar. I'd pay particular attention to Motoko and themuzic's postings. Both have done videos on how to use the product. I use VIs a lot. One I use is a multi-timbral VI -- it took me 4 days of beating my head against the DAE wall in Pro Tools which ended in failure, and 10 minutes to get it set up and running in Studio One with the Demo. I like the ability to go from song to Red Book compliant CD with this program.

you're right about Reason/Record not supporting 3rd party plugins. I use Reason 4 right now. I'll update to 5 when I need to.

Every DAW out there has its good points and deficiencies. What you pick will depend upon how much you are going to be sharing files and with whom, if at all. All have their learning curves. Some are pickier than others regarding hardware configuration.

The thing about 64 bit right now is that it is pretty new in the audio realm. Going up to 64 bit for someone with a ton of plugins that are 32 bit is probably not a good idea unless there is money to upgrade them to 64 bit. A 64 bit host will recognize 64 bit plugins. A 32 bit host will recognize 32 bit plugins.

DRUMS: I personally like Addictive Drums. I got the basic program and then added four ad-paks (Retro, Jazz sticks, Jazz brush, Funk). And they have midi paks with loops for other genres. Drag and drop. Tune the kit. And you can either use it's effects bank or turn it off and use the one in your DAW. One thing I really like with this is the quality of the cymbals.

There is also a performance drop off after 6 GB ram, meaning it is still accessible but may not be as efficient.

 

[kcearl]

i think Record will limit you...I love the idea of propellerheads DAWs but they are just too restrictive..Sonar X-1 has bugs, im not a sonar fan but I have used it and it will do what you want, but Im a member of their forum too and i think X-1 has got a couple of more updates before its totally steady..

ive tried studio one when it came out and ity has a great workflow..i found the mixing faders to be too short and hard to fine tune mixes..pans wouldnt zero..it also has no track freeze or a straighforward way to bounce midi to audio..so only the fastest PCs need apply

Reaper is fantastic value and capable in everything, Im not sure its midi is on par with the big boys so out of the ones you've mentioned my vote would be with cubase 6

 

[TimOBrien]

Try out Reaper and save a couple of hundred you can put to better use elsewhere.

Since you used Vegas before you'll be comfortable.

 

[JB's Studio]

ive tried studio one when it came out and ity has a great workflow..i found the mixing faders to be too short and hard to fine tune mixes..pans wouldnt zero..it also has no track freeze or a straighforward way to bounce midi to audio..so only the fastest PCs need apply

They are at version 1.6.3 now. Still no trackfreeze, but bouncing midi->audio is a breeze (as in right click; bounce to audio). Sure beats actually having to track it to audio via a bus in Pro Tools. We have requested trackfreeze and from what I know it is in the works -- whether it's in the next update or in Version 2.0 is going to be another thing. They are taking user requests seriously which is a breath of fresh air to me.

Also the OP mentions "mucho processor and ram". It's doing fine on my Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600.

Still, I'd try as many different demo versions of stuff as you can before you get married to one.

 

[kcearl]

They are at version 1.6.3 now. Still no trackfreeze, but bouncing midi->audio is a breeze (as in right click; bounce to audio). Sure beats actually having to track it to audio via a bus in Pro Tools. We have requested trackfreeze and from what I know it is in the works -- whether it's in the next update or in Version 2.0 is going to be another thing. They are taking user requests seriously which is a breath of fresh air to me.

Also the OP mentions "mucho processor and ram". It's doing fine on my Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600.

Still, I'd try as many different demo versions of stuff as you can before you get married to one.

id definitely consider adding it to ableton if it had freeze...im on a dual core with UAD-1 and powercore cards so Im unlikely to upgrade there too quickly, but I use a few cpu intensive softsynths..studio one's synth package is far too basic and i dont always want to force bouncing to audio too often

still come my inevitable interface upgrade i think presonus would be a route id take...brilliant ease of use and the mastering/project section was great...hopefully 2.0 is a useful update

 

[spackler]

Thanks so far

Looks like I'll have to check out Reaper.

What do I really lose by going with them vs. others?

And it looks like Reaper is pretty friendly with 3rd party plugins.

 

[JimmyS1969]

I find it kinda funny that the poll on DAW software used on this forum shows that most members use unnamed software (obviously Reaper). Second, Protools and Cubase third on the poll.

Ever notice that Reaper users seem to promote the software like they're salesmen working for commissions? (probably guilt for low price).

Protools users say that its expensive to expand but have to use because of industry standards? (goin with the flow).

Cubase users keep quiet because they are hoping their software might get an update this year so they don't want to tell you just yet how they feel about it yet? (known for releasing new versions with bugs).

It seems like any software is a personal decision that should be based on your own opinion through your own testing of demo versions. Opinions are truly like the places we poop from. All of the top contenders in the DAW software market have very close to equal abilities.

What CB guys says, RPR dude will belittle. PT user will mock any others. It really comes down to what works for you through working with the software lite or trial versions. If you don't have the time to try each of them, then you will not have the time that it takes to really comprehend any of them completely. Once you learn the workflow of one product, you will most likely never leave it.

But in reality you will go with what your cool friend tells you is the best.................

His first name is probably Grim.

Jimmy

 

[kcearl]

I always recommend reaper...because there is nothing to lose

I use Ableton myself

 

[gecko zzed]

Ever notice that Reaper users seem to promote the software like they're salesmen working for commissions? (probably guilt for low price).

No guilt, no salesman from me.

I started using Reaper three or four years ago and have been extolling its virtues ever since. It is powerful, flexible, easy to use. The reason why so many users sound like salesmen is most likely because of this. They have switched to Reaper from another program and are not looking back.

 

[MaVN]

I really, really, LOVE my Pro Tools. Took me a week to get the basics down. But, it does cost too much, seeing that you can get reaper for $40...

 

[JimmyS1969]

I am in no way trying to insult. Just an observance. I downloaded Reaper yesterday to check it out.

 

[c7sus]

I use Sonar but recommend Reaper because if you're just starting out it's the cheapest solution. Dollar-for-dollar there is nothing else even close for performance.

 

[RAMI]

Ever notice that Reaper users seem to promote the software like they're salesmen working for commissions? (probably guilt for low price).

Yeah, whenever I find something that does everything I need and doesn't cost a lot, I can't sleep for days because I feel so guilty for not being an idiot that bought something that doesn't do everything I need for a lot more money.

Opinions are truly like the places we poop from.

Oh now I get it. Your post was just trying to prove exactly that. Genius.

 

[JimmyS1969]

HA! Well said! And yes my poop is stinky. I'm diggin the Reaper so far. I may have wasted money while stepping in my own poop!

 

[RAMI]

HA! Well said! And yes my poop is stinky. I'm diggin the Reaper so far. I may have wasted money while stepping in my own poop!

Nah, you're just feeling guilty, too.

But all joking aside, REAPER really is cool, especially for the price.

 

[JimmyS1969]

.........