Feedback Destroyer?...

[VESSEL2020]

My guitarist has a lot of gain in his setup (Peavey 5150 & Mesa Triple Recto)
along with a couple pedals, and rack effects.
We've tried to change everything around a couple different ways,...but no luck.
Everytime he goes to pause on playin' a riff,..we get unwanted feedback.
We use a rack effects processor from the 80's called SPX50D by Yamaha, and we've
had the same tone from this unit since '87. It is the heart of our "sound".
We have found out that the SPX50D is the culprit. We own 4 of these units, and they all do the same thing (unwanted feedback)..when mixed with the other guitar gear. There is nothing wrong with any of the 4 units. I just think, the SPX50D does not like tube amps.
We've tried to lower the parameter settings, even though it would change "our sound",
and still the SPX50D does not play well with others. This has been a problem for a looooong time now,..
He has a Boss NS-1 noise suppressor pedal in which, it seems to help a little, but not enough.
Does anyone, know if a Behringer DSP1124P 24-bit Feedback Destroyer,...might do the trick for us in a guitar rig setup,...or is this only for a "live soundboard" or "studio application"? We've tried just about everything, except this...unless someone else, has some tips that we haven't covered. Also,...don't want to end up using somethin' that's gonna suck the life outta our tone. We can kinda get away with the feedback when playin' live shows, because of the heavy genre...and some guitarists like that as a wanted sound in their tone,..but when we try to pause and have everything quiet all at the same time,..it becomes a nuisance.
Anyone?
Thanks
Here's a link to the Feedback Destroyer,...I've read the specs,..but not sure.
BEHRINGER: DSP1124P

 

[ocnor]

The Behringer DSP1124P works great for vocal monitors but it would screw up the tone badly if used on a guitar rig. I have a Yamaha SPX90 which is very similar and it works fine with any other effect units. Your guitarist must have his gain stages set completely wrong to cause feedback like you've described.

 

[moresound]

What you need to try out is a gate instead Vessel.

 

[stevieb]

I got a couple of the small Behri SHARC feedback destroyers- wanna borrow one to try? Cover shipping and you can. PM me.

 

[mcmetal]

What you need to try out is a gate instead Vessel.

+1

A suppressor will only quiet the hiss.A gate set properly will let no sound pass until you hit a string or begin playing.It's almost a necessity for stop and go metal riffs on high gain amps at loud volumes.If you set a gate too sensitive it will cut out your notes prematurely.It really depends on your songs and playing.Normally i'll use a gate on my rythm channel but not the lead.

 

[VESSEL2020]

What you need to try out is a gate instead Vessel.

We've tried one before,..but the problem with that was,..
We have a (constant) delay on our rhythmic guitar sound. It's kinda hard to explain,..
It's a very very heavily saturated gain , with a lot of low end, and mid-gain punch, delay mixed with distortion to stretch the crunch out further tone. I say, comparable to oldschool "Master of Puppets"
sound, but a bit heavier. My guitarists' tone sounds like there could almost be a bass player playin' right along with the guitar. We've had this same sound since the late 80's,..but have upgraded a few amps along the way.
We've tried to lower the gain settings,.. back off on the presence,..increase resonance-decrease reso,
Right now, you'd be surprised to hear that we are using the "clean" channel on the Mesa Recto,..especially since we like overly saturated gain. It seems as if this is the only way, we can actually use the Recto being the fact that we get a heavy saturated (almost pre-amped) delay distortion out of the SPX50D...along with an extra couple analog pedals, and tape echo.
Now, You're probably thinking there's alot of delay goin' on,...but actually it's set to a minimum.
When we've tried the gate (opened wide and closed both ways back and forth slow)...It crushed our tone to bits.
There was one setting we did get with the gate that sounded good and tight,...but it was cuttin' the delay off.
I don't know,..gotta get rid of this feedback somehow, someway.

 

[VESSEL2020]

...........

 

[VESSEL2020]

+1

A suppressor will only quiet the hiss.

Found that out real quick.
Hear ya, on that.

Normally i'll use a gate on my rythm channel but not the lead.

I think you just gave me an idea with that! Thank you!
Maybe,..maybe I can figure somethin' out with an A/B box and those two channels on the (5150). I don't know ,..it gave me some sort of an idea, that I can't explain.
Maybe a gated one for on the parts that are desperately needed.
Thanks for the tip. Right on.

 

[VESSEL2020]

I got a couple of the small Behri SHARC feedback destroyers- wanna borrow one to try? Cover shipping and you can. PM me.

That's really kind of you, and the offer is very much appreciated.
Let me see what my guitarist thinks, ..I might take you up on it.
We might be able to get a "loaner" here in town at the music store,
if I ask my friend who owns it. If he has one there.
I was kinda askin' on here first, to see if anyone may have had somethin' close to
the same experience, and maybe tried the Feedback Destroyer...and then maybe check into
a loaner.
Thanks again for the offer,...wicked way cool.

 

[stevieb]

Behri mentions using the SHARC in the manual, but cautions that you should use the learn feature, not the auto feature, so that intended feedback won't be killed, too.

 

[ocnor]

When your baby gets hungry and starts to cry do you solve the problem by wearing earplugs?

patient: Doc it hurts when I do this
doctor: Well then don't do that

Hello? Hello? Anybody home? Huh? Think, McFly Think!

 

[VESSEL2020]

@ ocnor

When your baby gets hungry and starts to cry do you solve the problem by wearing earplugs?

patient: Doc it hurts when I do this
doctor: Well then don't do that

Hello? Hello? Anybody home? Huh? Think, McFly Think!

Not sure what you're referring to ocnor?
We've tried backing off some of the gain,..and still end up with feeback anyway.
We can lower the settings (parameters) on the SPX50D,...and it starts to go away,
but then "our sound" has changed,..and totally defeats the purpose.
I know you said you have the SPX90,...in which we have 2 of those and a SPX90II also,..so I'm pretty sure you understand the SPX units.
What advice do you have, as far as mixing this unit with 2 high gain tube amps?

 

[bruiser1964]

Have you tried backing off on the decay on the dalays?
Removing one effect at a time?
changing the order the effects are sitting in the chain?
Is the feedback being generated by the delay or by the guitar / proximity to the speaker?
I don't think the feedback destroyer is the answer, It wll take away more from the sound than it gives - we used to use these in our PA but stopped when we got decent gear, they sound sh~t.

 

[mixsit]

If it's during pauses- is it because a compressor is releasing to higher (non reduced) gain?

 

[ocnor]

Not sure what you're referring to ocnor?
We've tried backing off some of the gain,..and still end up with feeback anyway.
We can lower the settings (parameters) on the SPX50D,...and it starts to go away,
but then "our sound" has changed,..and totally defeats the purpose.
I know you said you have the SPX90,...in which we have 2 of those and a SPX90II also,..so I'm pretty sure you understand the SPX units.
What advice do you have, as far as mixing this unit with 2 high gain tube amps?

So did "our sound" always have an uncontrollable feedback problem? Whats changed in the setup to cause this problem? If you could describe the exact signal chain it would be much easier for us to help.

 

[MOFO Pro]

I'd move the guitarist... or turn him around

 

[VESSEL2020]

So did "our sound" always have an uncontrollable feedback problem?

Yes,...and now it has become worse. Before, we were able to tolerate it somewhat,..but now it has become a nuisance.

Whats changed in the setup to cause this problem? If you could describe the exact signal chain it would be much easier for us to help.

Exact signal chain:
Jackson Professional V w/ 1 emg active pickup (85)
Monster cables
Cable from guitar going into SPX50D input,
SPX50D R/L outputs to Boss Metalcore pedal
Metalcore pedal to Boss NS-1 Noise Suppressor
NS-1 to A/B box
A/B box going to 5150 A side,...Mesa B side

The only thing that changed in the setup was the addition of the
Boss Metalcore in which we barely even use any of the effect at all on it. (I'd say about 20%)
But,..That cannot be the problem because, we've eliminated it from the signal,
and the feedback was still there.
The only other thing that has changed in the setup, is...
The fact that we are using a clean channel on the Mesa Recto now, vs. using a dirty channel before.
Other than that, we've changed nothing.
We've tried setting everything up every way possible,.. pedals before, pedals after, pedals in the send and return loops, etc.,... same goes for the rack processor, and amps.
We've even tried placin' the NS-1 in different spots, even though it says in the manual to put it before your effects,..which is weird to me.
The only thing that wasn't changed in the signal, was the amps. Which by the way, have all new tubes.
We've tried movin' the guitarist far away from his amp, cuz we have a pretty big practice room,..still no luck.
It seems as if the SPX50D is the culprit,..because when we take it out of the mix,
the feedback goes away. Like I've said before,..we have 4 of these units in excellent condition,..and they all do the same thing.
It seemed to get worse, after we've added the second amp (Triple Recto).
SPX50D & Triple Recto do NOT play well together...only at low volumes.

 

[VESSEL2020]

If it's during pauses- is it because a compressor is releasing to higher (non reduced) gain?

No compressor in the mix.
Unless you consider the NS-1 Noise suppressor as a compressor.
Because a compressor can lower volumes, or bring 'em higher.

 

[ocnor]

Exact signal chain:
Jackson Professional V w/ 1 emg active pickup (85)
Monster cables
Cable from guitar going into SPX50D input,
SPX50D R/L outputs to Boss Metalcore pedal
Metalcore pedal to Boss NS-1 Noise Suppressor
NS-1 to A/B box
A/B box going to 5150 A side,...Mesa B side

That setup seems very wrong. What effects exactly is the SPX50D being used for? If you are running it into the front of a distorted amp then that is the main problem. Are you using one amp for distortion and one for clean?

 

[VESSEL2020]

@ ocnor

That setup seems very wrong. What effects exactly is the SPX50D being used for? If you are running it into the front of a distorted amp then that is the main problem. Are you using one amp for distortion and one for clean?

We've tried to put everything in a different order,..like the SPX50D in the effects loop (send and return)..or after the pedals,..but for some reason the sound doesn't come out the way we like it.
As of now,..The 5150 is running the lead channel (which has more gain, than the rhythm channel),
and with the Recto,..we are using the clean channel with all the effects goin' through it, instead of using the gain from the amp. Kinda like takin' all the digital effects, and then runnin' them into a pure clean tube sound. (Maybe that's the problem?)
The sound on the SPX50D that we use is called "delay distortion"
That is the heart of our sound. We add the Boss Metalcore to the mix for it's bassey sound and a bit of the distortion turned up slightly.
So, all in all...There are a couple different distortions being used.
Mainly we choose/favor the sound (distortion) from the SPX over anything else, because it has our special tone,...and then add a little more with the metalcore,..and then the gain from the amps.
The 5150 is a dirty gain on the A side of the A/B box, and the Recto is a clean gain on the B side, with the effects goin' through it...and then when A and B are switched on together as one,...we have our sound. We tried using this setup with a dirty channel on the Recto first,..but there was so much gain that it turned to mud, whereas using the clean channel, we can get away with it.
We've takin' this setup apart several times, and put it back together so many different ways, that there is no other way to possibly keep our sound, and get rid of the feedback.
It used to be somewhat tolerable,..but it's getting a little overbearing now.
I'm willing to try out any suggestions anyone may have, that we haven't tried already.
Just keep in mind,..that we don't want to eliminate anything from the effects chain.
Also, keep in mind that the feedback doesn't happen with the 5150 as much as it does with the Recto (which is on a clean channel)...
In fact,..the 5150 and the SPX get along o.k.,...it's the Recto that screams with feedback the most...and like I've said,..It has all brand new power/preamp tubes/ rectifier tubes. Both amps have brand new tubes, and act alright when played without the SPX.