Survey Here: Quality Songs Vs. Great Production. Which Wins Out In The End??

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Mike Freze

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Hey! Not sure how to use the survey format on here. Oh, well, my stupidity. Please respond, anyway.

I know it takes two, baby. But if it really got down to it, what do you think are better chances to land a record deal with a record company: a GREAT but simple (or not-so-simple) song that is strong in lyrics, melody, a great hook, top-40 potential; or a fairly GOOD song with great arrangements, editing, mixing, mastering behind the final product??

In other words, is it the song (even with limited production) that counts the most or is a good song with great production going to make a bigger impression??

Mike Freze
 
Neither matters. What matters is luck and a willingness to sell your soul.
 
Neither matters. What matters is luck and a willingness to sell your soul.


True that a record company won't even look at you us less you have well over 10,000 paying fans to see you live, purchase your CD etc. etc. ...... Now who can do that? Most of the up and coming bands on the college circuit. But from what I've seen they are all just flash in the pan.
 
Sell my soul, Greg? You mean like to the devil? You stinker, you!! What is a soul worth? (ha-ha). Is it what goes into making a great soul or the production of that soul?? Tell me, please, I'm anxious to learn. Or is being a soul brother (or "Hey, Soul Sister") the answer? Maybe TRAIN knows!! I think we're on to something here. Maybe it's not luck after all!

Mike
 
True that a record company won't even look at you us less you have well over 10,000 paying fans to see you live, purchase your CD etc. etc. ...... Now who can do that? Most of the up and coming bands on the college circuit. But from what I've seen they are all just flash in the pan.

All very very true...you do have to sell your soul.
If you do write great songs, fantastic that's all that really matters....put them out there.
Does it really matter about getting a record deal ?, the most important thing is you do the music for the pure pleasure and enjoyment of it.
That's all that really matters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rHpNopNDvI
 
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Neither matters. What matters is luck and a willingness to sell your soul.

Trouble is trying to find someone to buy your soul these days... :D

Luck is a major player though, no doubt...
 
These days, it's all about the "act" and whether it will get the teenagers interested in spending mommy and daddys money on you. No question a good song is better than a not so good song, but song quality is almost an aside these days. Do they think you have an ACT that will sell; one that will get attention on the Internet first and TV second, and that will draw teens into decent venues on a live tours. If you are between the ages of 14 and 24, are pretty or handsome (or both :D), can dance or dress like a slut, and not cause Melodyne to lock up when you sing, you're in.:(

G.
 
Hey, Steven, I agree. Put it out there and if it's really a great song, someone somewhere will notice.

There's a lot of crap that songwriters push to music executives: that's why they have filtering systems (like secretaries) who weed out the junk. I understand that an average publisher, producer, or A&R man listens to say 100 songs submitted per-week. Out of those 100, only one or two are GREAT songs: ones that have radio appeal, and appeal to the masses. That's what they are looking for to break in a new artist. The other stuff can be album fillers. But you need that big hit to get noticed.

That's why few record companies listen to unsolicited tapes/CDs anymore: very few songs are GREAT: either crap. or just average. I can see their point. They are busy. They don't have time to listen to mediocre stuff all day long when they can listen to seasoned, well-crafted songwriters already on board with their company who have proven themselves with hits.

Great songwriters know their craft, they have the formula down. But they are rare. Some examples: Carole King, Neil Sedaka, Burt Bacharch, Phil Collins, James Taylor, Gordon Lightfoot, Paul Anka, Paul Williams, Irving Berlin, Rogers & Hammerstein, The Beatles, The Eagles, Barry Manilow, The Bee Gees, Aerosmith, im Croce, Cat Stevens, Bon Jovi, etc.

All the above are consistent: they know their craft and are successful year after year. That's NO accident or luck. Yes, a one-hit wonder is luck: "Wild Thing" or "In The Year 2525". But great songwriters keep writing great songs, even with the change of times. The creme always rises to the top (eventually). Part of it is luck (maybe 50%), but the other 50% is hard work, perseverance, and GREAT TALENT. Luck will come to those who are great. Seasoned musical professionals (publishers, producers, A&R people) will know when they hear that "something special" (meaning "consistency").

I say all this because I know: I worked for London Records as a songwriter in the early 1970's. I learned a lot back then. Nothing has changed, only the style and expression. The tools and techniques still apply, and everyone is still looking for a great hit, a song with a great hook, a well-structured lyric and melody,
something said in a unique way but yet adherent to basic lyic writing, and so on.

It hasn't changed. Get really good at your craft, shoot for writing hit songs (that's what the bigwigs look for), and worry about your other creative expressions (album cuts) later on. Remember. record executives look for songs that will fit into a radio station's list (time-wise, topic wise, and so on). A well-structured song has to be between 3 minutes and 4 minutes long: any longer, the radio won't fit it into their playlist. Shorter won't work either. Long songs like "Stairway To Heaven"? It's because it's Led Zepplin and they were ALREADY famous when they pulled that off. A beginner can't get away with that.

Luck plays a big part (and more so, timing for who needs what and when). But great writers create their own luck by having the goods to deliver when an opportunity arrives. Got a great song for Celine Dion that her producer needs? If you don't, then forget the luck: if you had it, it might open the door (the right song, the right time, the right person, the right need). The luck would be in getting her producer to listen to your song in the first place. If you can make it past the secretary (or sway her to pass your song on), then you've got that started. How? Try phoning them. Talk to the secretary. Get an agent or manager who can do the same. Ask an A&R person to listen to your song on your website. Or simply mail in your song (professionally): 90% of CDs/cassettes look like crap when sent in, so you can eliminate 90% of your competition by just being professional and following up with a phone call. Create your own luck by being professional, knowing what the industry wants, and presenting it in a professional manner. Have a lot of songs that are well-structured, hit potential, commercial, and varied (ballads, medium-paced songs, fast songs, etc.). Then you can have a library to send someone who needs this for this person at this time!!

Mike Freze
 
These days, it's all about the "act" and whether it will get the teenagers interested in spending mommy and daddys money on you. No question a good song is better than a not so good song, but song quality is almost an aside these days. Do they think you have an ACT that will sell; one that will get attention on the Internet first and TV second, and that will draw teens into decent venues on a live tours. If you are between the ages of 14 and 24, are pretty or handsome (or both :D), can dance or dress like a slut, and not cause Melodyne to lock up when you sing, you're in.:(

G.

Even 24 is old these days for a smash run away artist.
 
Hey, Glen, great response. Maybe I'm handsome; maybe you are too!! Maybe that will get us somewhere (ha-ha). I don't dress like a slut, but maybe I should...rather be called a successful slut songwriter/musician than a nobody, right? Let's get on the garter belts and we're ready to go!!

Seriously, you are right: the ACT says it all. It's a package deal these days: visual selling vs. great songs and productions. Sad but true: Internet, TV, and so on. Sell your appearance and you have it made: look at Marilyn Manson, for example. Shit-ass songs, but great visual impressions for young kids (with a lot of distorted music that makes any crap sound good to teens, I guess). In the old days, people who did it right (Alice Cooper, KISS) ALSO had GREAT songs. That's the difference.

Where is my bottle of wine and a good Tony Bennett song?? Damn, I must be getting old (ha!).

Mike

Mike
 
Not me, I have a face made for radio, not video. And I am a whore, not a slut. The difference? I demand payment ;).

G.
 
Yes!! That's it! I must be a whore too. Payment up front, right? Bottom line, yeah! How do you go from whore to slut? Guess when your song or act isn't making you money. Maybe I am a slut after all!!

Mike
 
Now a PIMP, that brings a different equation here. Do you pimp whores or sluts or both? There is a sonic difference, you know. If you pimp the whore who makes money, then that's fine. But if you pimp a slut, where is your decibal gain?? How do go not go over the threshhold??

Mike
 
If you've got the money, honey, I've got the time (Willie Nelson was so right on). You'll get your money when your G string runs perpedicular to your asshole. Then compress your truss rod a bit (guitar or otherwise) and squeeze yourself to get that tight, fitting sound. You following me? THEN you can have your money!

Mike
 
You are always on my mind ..... hey done all of that. You've been turning tricks ~ where's the loot?
 
You REALLY are a slut!! Maybe a whore too. So tell me, if you are a whore but look like a slut, can you still get paid? Do you have to cross-dress?? Where do you draw the line??

Hey, whatever happened to this thread I started?? Seems it brings out the sexual regressive behavior like Moresound exhibits. Time for some musical therapy! Get undressed, plug your jack into the interfaced, and let it roll. Caution: tape your testicles together first because bouncing balls always creates unpleasant overtones.

Mike
 
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