The most expensive mic...

Its horn is made of wood. I'm not sure the reason for the horn design; its designer went into a limited amount of detail, but not really enough for anybody else to understand. In some manner it is similar to the use of a boundary surface, but it requires more complex equalization. So it remains a mystery to me . . . the main advantage seems to be use of a moving coil element, which will have less distortion than a capacitor element (not really the capsule itself, but rather distortion in the FET due to high input levels). The disadvantage of low sensitivity and poor transient response of a moving coil element is compensated with the horn, at least at frequencies where the horn is effective (listed as 1kHz, which appears to be correct given the size of the horn).

Which brings us back to the use of wood; the designer I believe prefers it for its frequency response (it will absorb some of the top octave), but it appears the horn is a cylindral/conical design. Closer approximations of an exponential curve would reduce resonance and make the equalization simpler; perhaps a wood veneer on a plastic molding would have been more economical; or instead, for the price one could ask for some time spent with a rasp . . .

Curiously, a flat frequency response is claimed using linear-phase EQ (as I recall the designer mentioned), which I don't think will result in a flat phase response.

Another characteristic is the polar pattern; it will be highly directional, but again only above 1kHz. Compared with the traditional 40mm-50mm ball used in the Neumann M50, and sold as accessories for Schoeps and others, it will be much more dramatically directional.

It is interesting though; I think I might like a less severe, somewhat smaller horn, with a profile that could be more easily handled by passive EQ, perhaps as part of the transducer/transformer design. I think it also might be interesting to use a smaller than usual moving coil, since the resulting low sensitivity wouldn't be a burden. Such a design I am pretty sure could be executed for less than $200.
 
most expensive mic

people actually use in a practical setting that you can still find relatively easily? Sony C-800. new, they were upwards of 12K. probably worth more now. Even 251's and 47's didn't cost that much NEW...
 
Well, OK, a discussion on optics, why not?

Fundamentally, an $11K tube mic and, say, an SM57 are the same thing: they transduce sound into an electrical signal. Your bathroom mirror and Hubble are fundamentally different: the bathroom mirror is flat, and Hubble is concave. A concave mirror gathers light across a wide aperture and focuses it on a single point. This enables it not only to make the very dim object brighter, it also allows resolution according to the size of the primary mirror. This is referred to as the "diffraction limit" of the mirror's resolution. There is no analogy with microphones, as the resolution of a microphone decreases with increasing diaphragm size. This is because a microphone diaphragm is a mechanical system and a telescope is not (ignoring the adaptive optics I mentioned), so increasing mirror size has no ill effect in terms of inertia (provided that you aren't the motor that is tasked with aiming the system).

You can read lots about diffraction-limited optics here:

Diffraction-limited system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For a large ground-based telescope, the diffraction limit far exceeds the resolution possible from having to look through the atmosphere, which refracts and thus diffuses light and makes it quite annoying to try to increase resolution. So there is no point in increasing the size of a ground-based telescope beyond a certain size (at least traditionally that was true, and the largest built is about 10m). This is also why telescopes are placed at high altitude, so they have less atmosphere to look through.

But Hubble, being in space, is able to operate at its diffraction limit, and so far outperforms larger ground-based telescopes. In fact, Hubble at 2.4m doesn't even make this list:

List of largest optical reflecting telescopes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And so we might ask, is it better to have an $11K mic in a bedroom, or a $1K mic in a properly designed acoustic space? Hubble would suggest the latter . . . of course if Hubble were comparatively as cheap, we would have 300 Hubbles and no ground-based scopes . . .

(Sigh)...well, thanks again for giving another wonderful display defining "self-aggrandizing, vainglorious narcissism".

Harvey, you may stand down. MSH has it handled. No need for any other discussion of any things microphone. The ultimate expert is on the job!

[Forum closed.]
 
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Actually, I'm going to expound on my response. Certain microphones have become expensive because of the coveted sound and texture they, and only they, posses. If all microphones sounded the same those microphones and their beloved sound wouldn't have any value at all. They have a character that is elevated just above reality. None of them are technically perfect, but through history they have created our expectations of what recorded music should sound like and therefore set the bar.

Listen to any of your favorite old records and you realize that none of them sound like reality. I was just watching a great youtube video in where Dan Schwatrz comments about how if you listen to an old Beatles record it just sounds amazing, but none of it sounds like reality.

He makes a comment that really sums it up for me. "Why is a U47 a great vocal microphone?...It's NOT!...It SOUNDS like those old great recordings we fell in love with as kids!".

Only a U47 sounds like a U47, which is why they fetch upwards of $10,000 for a mint one. Likewise for all other expensive and cherished mics. The sound is the price tag.

Well John, what flaws in my thinking are apparent here? I'd love to know your wisdom in comparison to the great engineers in the industry, considering how they don't posses the immense knowledge you have!

After all, your microphone line has sold more and is in use by more studios than all of Telefunken, Neumann, AKG and Soundelux and Bock Audio microphones combined, are they not?

Oh, that's right. The amount of Naiant microphones that are used in professional studios = 0!!!
 
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Dude, chill, you made a bad analogy, get over it. The simple fact is you do get what you pay for in telescopes; in microphones, not so much. Stars on film (or CCD) don't lie. They are actually a perfect test of an optical system. Nobody thinks coma or chromatic aberration are "euphonic".

Also don't make assumptions about who my customers are or how many I have sold. Just because I don't feel the need to boast about that repeatedly on BBSs doesn't mean they don't exist.
 
Further to the microphone-telescope comparison. We've all read/heard/done "shootouts", right? Especially the ones that are fairly inconclusive, which is basically all of them? I mean, they have these every week on GS, and it's rare to even see 50% agreement on which mic of the lot sounds "best". Usually they are just a big argument on methodology, which is probably because it's difficult to do properly, and many people don't even try (some do; not to criticize everyone).

Arguments like that are surprisingly rare with telescopes (well, there is the refractor vs. reflector argument, but the reflectors usually win). I wonder why . . . so let's try a telescope shootout!

All you have to do is sort these images in order of preference. I wonder if this will prove as hard a task . . . probably we'll have a long argument about exposure times, seeing conditions, which image would fit better in a mix with a bunch of different images, and nobody will be able to agree . . . right?

#1:
6v11-3.jpg


#2:
6v11-4.jpg


#3: View attachment 64207
 
You can't get any closer to the Andromeda galaxy, it's 2.5 million light years away :eek:

Magnification of those three images is pretty close to the same (the last image is maybe 1.3x the other two). Note the location of the smaller galaxy in the lower right--it doesn't get closer to Andromeda in the three images; rather, the detail of Andromeda gets filled in by the light-gathering power and resolution of the bigger scopes!
 
I don't think we've mentioned the Simpson microphone yet:

Simpson High Resolution Microphones

About $15K each . . .


Snake Oil.

The ground breaking Model A is the first microphone to apply the principle of acoustic impedance-matching to the problem of mechanical nonlinearity in the microphone.
It is also the first microphone to apply novel psychoacoustic principles of spectral masking precedence to achieve the perception of depth.

Acoustic impedance-matching is nothing new and used in almost any decent mic. Also "moving coil" is just another, more expensive sounding phrase for "dynamic".

The explanation on the site goes for about any other mic. In fact, I have a wooden AKG from the seventies or eighties that uses the exact same topology. You can change it from cardio to hyper with a plastic ring. I guess you could call that ring a lens or something even more expensive sounding...

I would tend to lend it a bit more weight if the at least had a decent website.
 
Snake Oil.



Acoustic impedance-matching is nothing new and used in almost any decent mic. Also "moving coil" is just another, more expensive sounding phrase for "dynamic".

The explanation on the site goes for about any other mic. In fact, I have a wooden AKG from the seventies or eighties that uses the exact same topology. You can change it from cardio to hyper with a plastic ring. I guess you could call that ring a lens or something even more expensive sounding...

I would tend to lend it a bit more weight if the at least had a decent website.

WoW can you post a picture of that AKG?
 
You can't get any closer to the Andromeda galaxy, it's 2.5 million light years away :eek:

Magnification of those three images is pretty close to the same (the last image is maybe 1.3x the other two). Note the location of the smaller galaxy in the lower right--it doesn't get closer to Andromeda in the three images; rather, the detail of Andromeda gets filled in by the light-gathering power and resolution of the bigger scopes!

Yes I can get closer .... as I was viewing I jumped up as high as I could! :D
 
Which ones are we talking about now?

The Simpson Model A

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The photos are inconclusive really. Like audio samples. we'll naturally choose the loudest (larger) one, if only because it's the loudest (largest). And if we're not dealing with the RAW image, and some 22MP shot that was scaled to 300px (<1MP). Any faults would be well hidden to the point of the fischer price lens and the zeiss lens to be considered equals. YMMV

Plus the viewers perspective plays a role. Trying to recall if my browser automagically defaults to a web optimized 256 color palette.
 
Uhh . . . I don't know how you can conclude that those photos are inconclusive. Seriously, are you unable to see? There is no image processing in the world that can make a 6" terrestrial scope look like Hubble, unless we are talking purposely crippling the Hubble image (note that I did shrink the Hubble image, and it was originally in color, which is a handicap vs. the B&W originals for the other two). Again, there is very little difference in magnification of the images, so it's not that some of the images are "zoomed in". It's that the smaller scopes cannot resolve that detail.

Also note that even the smallest scope is 6", which is substantially better than a bathroom mirror. That would be the same as looking with your naked eye. If you've never seen Andromeda with your naked eye . . . well, you aren't alone, you need a dark sky and you need to know where it is. It's a very small, very fuzzy faint dark gray patch. If you don't have a computer-controlled scope, you need to star-hop to find it even using a finder, you can't just easily aim your scope at it because it's hard to see.

Whereas this is a larger Hubble image in color:

Andromeda_Galaxy.jpg


You ever look up in the night sky with your naked eye and see something like that? No? OK, then do you think that is an accurate analogy of the difference between an $11K microphone and a $100 microphone?

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No, I didn't listen to the GS test, I am only interested other people's reactions. There should be some consistency in response, one would hope. Will there be? I dunno, doesn't appear that many people are going to try it out. Will the $9.5K mic sound as much better as the difference between those images? If it does, everybody should instantly be able to identify it as the best. Should not be challenging at all.
 
The Simpson would be orders of magnitude larger in its effect. Pull a horn off of a tweeter sometime if you're really bored and stick it in front of a mic. The effect is . . . rather dramatic, and not really in a good way! Which is why the Simpson would have to rely on EQ to fix its response.

When you consider that horn tweeters aren't designed to operate below maybe 1.5kHz at the lowest, and you consider how large folded horn woofers have to be, you'll get an idea . . .
 
Uhh . . . I don't know how you can conclude that those photos are inconclusive. Seriously, are you unable to see?

On the previous page, they were ALL 400px X 297px images. Hardly conclusive, might as well post 32 bit MP3 files and ask which of these Neumann 87's is the best of the litter. Hence inconclusive. Might as well ask Ray Charles which of these paintings LOOK best.

No I don't see that when I step outside. My shutter speed isn't 3600/1 seconds. Even if I could go that long without blinking. In order for it to be conclusive, you'd have to have at least a few variables be EQUAL. Sensor? Optics? Something a little more than pointed in the same general direction. By the content alone you can tell that there's several months between the point of capture on those images. Also note that a lot of the hubble images are subtitled, artists rendition of .... Since they combine many forms of light NOT visible by the human eye, even if we had the same exposure duration.

Which of these images is better?

andromeda_edit_x2.gif


They're both the same source. The top one is actually the original (scale 50%). The bottom one was run through a gimp plugin and adjusted brightness/contrast. Plus the same scale factor. batch-lab-colorboost / -20 brightness / +20 contrast / scale 50%. The difference is much more stark at full resolution. More so if the source wasn't a highly compressed JPG file. The visual equivalent of EQ? Not my forte per say having prescription glasses and a color deficiency.
 
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