Another Metal Mix

  • Thread starter Thread starter Harvey Gerst
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The guitars absolutely ruin the mix for me. Really ugly distortion and overpowering the mix.

Drums and vocals are spot on. I hear what Farview is saying about the drums being too natural, but it's actually sort of refreshing to hear a more natural sound in the heavy stuff instead of compressed to shit.
 
Hi Harvey,

Probably my concerns will be sorted by the mastering. Some of the guitar parts sound spot on, but there are also some parts that sound noisy in a soft, distant and pillowy way (perhaps I don't understand the genre), which might be difficult to master. Like some of the other comments here, I think the drums sound pretty good.
 
I know it may not mean much as I have only been recording for two years. I think you have done an amazing job here. ok, I get some of the points about the guitars, aside from that and perhaps the kind of ambience used (or retained) from recording the drums on the whole, may take the drums a little too deep into the mix, and this is just for me. I think it is a crakin recording, lots of stereo image, no phase major issues. No or little noise, I an think of many recordings I have made and heard that are nowhere in this league. I have to also disagree with the masses on this one, the track has not been over limited. For this genre, I have heard tracks super compressed that still work, it does wonders for the ambience of the guitars and the drums. I think I am jealous and would really love to get close to mixing a metal song like this, I really do struggle with this genre of music. Well done, Awsome mastering!:drunk:
 
Hey, maybe I'm the one that actually listen to extreme metal almost every day. Here's my opinion on your mix:

01. Drums
Kick is muffled, needs more bite and attack. Metal is about beating your ears relentlessly so, the kick have the bass but lacks the slap. Snare sound OK to me but the volume is too low. It seems during mastering you squashed the dynamics of the piece.

02. Guitars
Wrong distortion, sounds really digital and plastic. I'm not sure what gear they used but I assume is one of those horrible multi-FX processors, they simply suck! There's nothing like a cranked tube amp (it doesn't have to be an expensive one, it just need to have a killer sound and brand new tubes). So, as a guitar player I'm not enjoying the tone of the distortion.

03. Vocals
Nothing to complain. Given that the band have two vocalists, a little panning off center could have been a nice choice when the two vocals are going at the same time.

Well, I think the song is great, and maybe the mix was great but during mastering you ended destroying the dynamics... is there any chance we can hear the original unmastered mix to compare versions?
 
I'm gonna offer my insight here, and maybe some of this has been said before as I didn't read through the entire thread.

Natural sounding drums do NOT have to mean a bad metal mix. Listen to As the Palaces Burn by Lamb of God. Granted, not everyone is going to be a fan of that style of mix when it comes to metal, but I for one like it as you can tell an ACTUAL band is playing, and it's still clear and concise.

I think the best approach is to get your Overheads sounding nice and clear and natural, and then to mix in your close mics just to taste. You can still use something like drumagog to do sample replacement, but use it to ENHANCE the sound of your snare, not to change it. I usually try to get my drum mixes to sound like Fredrik Nordstrom (old-school Arch Enemy, Colony/Clayman In Flames).

Kick - Do a sweep with a parametric EQ to find out where the attack of the beater hitting the head occurs. In my experience this is usually somewhere around 3.5k. Once you find that point, apply a high shelf. Then apply a wide cut to lower the 250 - 1.5k range. You can apply a slight (1 - 2 db) low shelf to your kicks if you want, but this is optional.

Snare - sounds fine to me actually.

Toms - more close mics. Maybe consider slapping drumagog on here and replace them with samples.

guitars - Way, way, way, way, WAY to freaking digital sounding. I don't like listening to these at all. I agree, a cranked tube amp is definitely the way to go, but you can get GREAT tones out of amp-sim software as well.

Typically, I record DI tracks of all my guitars, 2 per side which makes 4 total takes. Then I run each take through 3 different instances of Peavey Revalver. (which means I have 12 total guitar tracks in my mixes) If you experiment and have an ear for good tone, you can create really heavy, full, and most of all organic sounding guitar tones just from sims.

If you have to work with these guitars... My suggestion is to use something like Waves C4, or any frequency based compresser, and squash the range from about 125hz - 700hz. add a slight boost somewhere between 1.5k - 2.5k, and maybe a high shelf if you like the way that sounds.

Vocals - these just need to be more prominent in the mix. I mean yeah, its metal, but I still would like the CHANCE to try and understand the singer :-p

All in all, not a bad job, just needs some tweaking to get there.
 
FadeToMuffins said:
I think the best approach is to get your Overheads sounding nice and clear and natural, and then to mix in your close mics just to taste. You can still use something like drumagog to do sample replacement, but use it to ENHANCE the sound of your snare, not to change it. I usually try to get my drum mixes to sound like Fredrik Nordstrom (old-school Arch Enemy, Colony/Clayman In Flames).
Click to expand...

That is called layering and it's pretty common when mixing metal but... as you pointed, it's just to enhance the sound. Otherwise, your drum is gonna sound unnatural. Another trick to achieve great results when replacing drums is to change the attack/release of the samples (no drummer hits the same piece with the same strength).
 
I have to agree. With all due respect, I'm not digging it. The kick and toms are too muffled. It needs some mids to cut through. The snare sounds to thin. Great recording though.
 
To everybody that commented in this thread:

First of all, thank you.

I have another metal group coming in tomorrow morning to record 3 or 4 songs; let's see if I can apply all of your great suggestions to this new group and see if I can get a little closer to a better metal sound.
 
Awesome, another chance to beat yourself. Lucky you that another metal band is going to record with you, it's a nice opportunity to make a better recording.

Remember, a good tracking is the clue to a great mix!
 
Every new recording session is another chance to do something better. I've always been willing to learn, and recording metal is no exception. It's a win/win situation. Less mud, more top end on the drums, and watch the guitar sound - got it!

I'll have them bring in a favorite CD and listen to that before I mix their stuff. That should solve any mixing and mastering problems.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
(...)and watch the guitar sound - got it!(..)
Click to expand...
As someone else pointed here, even with a digital distortion you could get a great and punchy tone. Never pass the guitar directly to the audio interface unless your intention is to re-amp later. I did that mistake years ago, I recoded without an amp, and didn't used a direct box... the result was a shitty guitar track with a plug-in distortion that sounded like a Xmas card :D
 
I have two 100 Watt Marshall Plexi's, a Marshall 1960a with Greenbacks, a Marshall 1965b with GL 35's, a Peavey Classic 50, a VHT, a Peavey Triple X, a Traynor YB45, and an assortment of other cabs and amps. I don't think I'll have any problems getting the guitar sound they want.
 

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Fuck! Nice gear man. So, how come the other band ended with that digital sound?
 
Don't remember. I do have a Line Six pod, but I've never used it. The guitars may have been recorded with a SansAmp TRI-O.D. (British setting), or the Peavey Triple X, but nothing digital. I really don't remember the actual equipment used on that session.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Don't remember. I do have a Line Six pod, but I've never used it. The guitars may have been recorded with a SansAmp TRI-O.D. (British setting), or the Peavey Triple X, but nothing digital. I really don't remember the actual equipment used on that session.
Click to expand...

The memory is the 1st to go............Unless it's the back, of course.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
I have two 100 Watt Marshall Plexi's, a Marshall 1960a with Greenbacks, a Marshall 1965b with GL 35's, a Peavey Classic 50, a VHT, a Peavey Triple X, a Traynor YB45, and an assortment of other cabs and amps. I don't think I'll have any problems getting the guitar sound they want.
Click to expand...

Niceeee. Where's the Mesa???:confused:
 
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