Reverb Dilemma

[ryguy76]

I'm trying to wrap my brain around reverb sends in the DAW world and am up against a wall. I understand that its ideal to have less instances of a specific reverb to save on cpu power, but if you have multiple channels going to 1 reverb aux, you no longer have control over each channels reverb placement with respect to the stereo field.

A simplified example would be, if you have a acoustic guitar panned right, a vocal in the center, and another guitar left, and wanted to send them all to the reverb aux, you now are stuck with all their respective reverbs being returned to the same stereo location (most likely center in this instance). What happens if you don't want the guitar returns centered? Do they need their own personal send? Kinda defeats the purpose of having a send, cause why not just use a reverb on the channel strip? This would make for lots of dedicated reverb auxes in a big mix, no? Am I missing something?

BTW, I'm on Logic 9.

hoping someone can shed a little light....thanks

 

[gdavi1]

Place the bus in post pan.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

The main reason to put reverb on an aux loop is so that you don't have to duplicate verb settings for multiple tracks where you want the same effect. If you want something different, then either put that on a different send or just stick it right on the track as an insert.

The original real reason to put reverb on an aux bus was *not* to save CPU power, that's yet another one of those seemingly unlimited Internet myths. It goes back well before digital even existed, to the analog-only days, when you only had a single reverb box to patch the tracks to. Not to mention, if you're using a stereo reverb to synth the sound of a room, the chances of one wanting to use pan at all and different reverb settings are rare.

If you want to save CPU power, either use the lock/freeze function on individual tracks (that's what it's there for), or physically render the verb on each track instead of running them real-time unrendered.

G.

 

[moresound]

Say ..... didn't I just see this question?

 

[ryguy76]

Thanks for the help, guys.

Why is it that only some reverbs actually pay attention to the post pan info. I read about it and then tried it.....yep, only some less fancy reverbs process the return with respect to the pan knob.

Also, what is meant by "true" panning?

Say ..... didn't I just see this question?

If you had seen this thread in the other forum, you should have also read that I mistakenly started it in the wrong forum and had asked for it to be deleted, not knowing I could close it myself. An edit done prior to any responses in that thread, which rather negates the need in you posting the above quote in BOTH threads. but who am i to judge how you spend your time.....

 

[Steenamaroo]

If you had seen this thread in the other forum, you should have also read that I mistakenly started it in the wrong forum and had asked for it to be deleted, not knowing I could close it myself. An edit done prior to any responses in that thread, which rather negates the need in you posting the above quote in BOTH threads. but who am i to judge how you spend your time.....

really?????

 

[Lt. Bob]

in general I'm not sure you'd actually want to pan reverb differently for different instruments or voices.
The idea of reverb is to simulate an environment.
So if you put a bunch of players in a room .......... the reverb's gonna be the same for all of them because it's the reverb of the room that's in play.
So whenever you're simulating an acoustic environment you'd want the 'verb to locate the same for all.

The only time you'd want it different is when using 'verb strictly as an effect which is not the common use for it.

 

[moresound]

If you had seen this thread in the other forum, you should have also read that I mistakenly started it in the wrong forum and had asked for it to be deleted, not knowing I could close it myself. An edit done prior to any responses in that thread, which rather negates the need in you posting the above quote in BOTH threads. but who am i to judge how you spend your time.....

Hope you didn't post this in the other forum!

 

[miroslav]

I like to use two reverb boxes (OTB) for the bulk my reverb needs. They both have the same type of room reverb, with same settings, both panned stereo L/R...but then I'll shorten the decay time on one by a little bit...like one might be 1.5 seconds and the other 1.2 sec.
I then use the shorter reverb for percussive, "snappy" elements and the longer one for melodic, "flowing" elements.
The layering of the two along with varying send levels for each element allows for the creation of some front-to-back depth/space, while still keeping all the elements in the "same room".

I also like to use a third reverb box set with a Plate reverb, for vocals. I adjust all its settings very close to my Room reverb box settings...but the Plate has a different texture than the Room, so it helps the vocal stay on top of the mix. I really like using Plate reverbs.
Sometimes I may also run my lead guitar through the Plate, other times I'll use one of the two Room boxes...all depends on the vibe of the lead.
Panning is always set to stereo L/R for all boxes.

Anyway...it's kinda' hard to localize panning of reverbs, as the diffused, low-level nature of the reverbs always makes it seem like it's everywhere...rather than *THERE!*.

Of course…as it’s been pointed out…there are times when you apply reverb as a pure *effect* rather than trying to create a “room” vibe with it, but that stuff has to be used judiciously and sparingly. You certainly wouldn’t want a different reverb *effect* on a lot of tracks!
But imagination and experimentation are the keys…so let your ears be your guide.

 

[mixsit]

in general I'm not sure you'd actually want to pan reverb differently for different instruments or voices.
The idea of reverb is to simulate an environment.
So if you put a bunch of players in a room .......... the reverb's gonna be the same for all of them because it's the reverb of the room that's in play.
So whenever you're simulating an acoustic environment you'd want the 'verb to locate the same for all.

The only time you'd want it different is when using 'verb strictly as an effect which is not the common use for it.

Well, no, or yes depending on which part of the question you're looking at.

Since we're all geeky and stuff already here or you're just curious enough to get in to a bit of 'why as well as how.. I really erg spending some time in the Lex' download area. I went there yesterday again for a question over at Gearslutz (that happened to be about 'reflections in the native plugs but found yet another interesting angle on their ideas on verb and design- envelopment' re high frequencies, vs low'- I had no idea..
If you're interested they do spread the stuff out in different manuals- 480, 960, 90, all good, but have different bits. 80' if you want to get into variations on the 'voices and effects. Forget the newer ones they're, well for what ever reason they're just really dummied down.

Back to verbs, input panning. Consider some (many?) don't even take your L/R pan info and generate' a unique result for each position. There are some 'true stereo? that do- I haven't gotten a lot of useful mileage out of this particular feature set, but likely because I'm not using verbs in that big of a way.
Here, in '480, and '960, Lex addresses some interesting aspects in this –in the compromises, and in where what you think you logically might want may not indeed work out real well- Some very cool insights into reality vs. our real task at hand- illusion

REVERBERATION AND REALITY page 5-3
http://www.lexiconpro.com/product_downloads/9/manuals/960L_Owners_Manual_Rev2.pdf


In Search of Ambience page page 3-3, and a real good read 'The Myth of Early Reflections.

http://www.lexiconpro.com/product_downloads/18/manuals/480L_V4_Owners_Manual_Rev0.pdf

Have fun.