Cardioid versus Supercardioid Mic

[Big Kenny]

Thanks for clearing that up Richie but ummmmmmm, what's an album?

 

[Richard Monroe]

Thanks for clearing that up Richie but ummmmmmm, what's an album?

It's just a bunch of downloads that I thoughtfully placed on a gold pressed CD. It'll be the wave of the future. You can actually play it *with or without* a computer, or even a smart phone! And for you Ferengis out there, do not confuse this with gold-pressed latinum, or, of course, with a platinum album (in my dreams).-Richie

 

[moresound]

My God, you guys have got it all wrong!. Here's the scoop from a *real* expert. First, it's not left and right, dummy, it's *North and South*! Just where do you think the damned poles are, anyway?
And yes, it can repel the singer, but if it's Aretha or Reuben Stoddard, you'll need a *supercardioid*, due to the singer's weight and overall talent. For someone like Jennifer Simpson, you'll need a *hyper*cardioid, due to the extreme amount of hype involved. And of course, Yoko Ono, because some people are just naturally hyper. You only need to reverse the polarity for *Southern* rock bands, and of course, Men at Work. That's why they have to use those Neodymium "rare Earth" magnets. Sometimes, when you're recording on the road, your direction keeps changing. That's why they use omnis. Just why do you think they call it an "omnibus" anyway? And never forget to check the polarity on Stevie Wonder's polarized sunglasses, or the mic is liable to just cancel him out completely! And whatever you do, don't plug your preamp into a polarized socket. It's like matter and antimatter, it can actually cause a rift in the subspace continuum, as well as temporal anomalies. Now, I hope I've cleared all of that up. And all I ask for this free advice is- buy my album. It rocks!-Richie

HA HA HA HA HA

What about equilateral recordings?

 

[Richard Monroe]

HA HA HA HA HA

What about equilateral recordings?

Haven't you learned *anything* from what I've said? Just what the hell do you think an *equalizer* is for, anyway? Then you have to straddle the equator, on the meridian, and use a Decca Tree, which after all, is an equilateral triangle. Do not confuse this with the Bermuda triangle, which is only for recording the Lost Airmen. Forget the details, and remember the fundamental principle: Every word always means exactly the same thing, no matter in what context it's used. And furthermore, similar or derivative words *are* the same thing. These arrogant pros are just trying to confuse you with their so-called facts. Like Harvey- he says he's not so sure an omni only picks up on one side. I think he *is* sure, but misguided courtesy gets in the way of giving the spammer a reality check. Yeah, he could explain that the mic body prevents the omni from recording in a perfect spherical pattern, but the truth would only confuse the spammer more. He hasn't gotten past the difference between polarity and polar patterns yet. (That's OK, Harvey- you're a scholar *and* a gentleman.)-Richie

 

[PhilGood]

I...apparently...MISSED something!

 

[moresound]

I...apparently...MISSED something!

This has been fun!! Phil, We have been dumping on a spammer who is a noob at it.

 

[moresound]

Haven't you learned *anything* from what I've said? Just what the hell do you think an *equalizer* is for, anyway? Then you have to straddle the equator, on the meridian, and use a Decca Tree, which after all, is an equilateral triangle. Do not confuse this with the Bermuda triangle, which is only for recording the Lost Airmen. Forget the details, and remember the fundamental principle: Every word always means exactly the same thing, no matter in what context it's used. And furthermore, similar or derivative words *are* the same thing. These arrogant pros are just trying to confuse you with their so-called facts. Like Harvey- he says he's not so sure an omni only picks up on one side. I think he *is* sure, but misguided courtesy gets in the way of giving the spammer a reality check. Yeah, he could explain that the mic body prevents the omni from recording in a perfect spherical pattern, but the truth would only confuse the spammer more. He hasn't gotten past the difference between polarity and polar patterns yet. (That's OK, Harvey- you're a scholar *and* a gentleman.)-Richie

Now let me get this straight Richard ..... What do you do during the solstice?

 

[Richard Monroe]

Now let me get this straight Richard ..... What do you do during the solstice?

I don't know about you, but I take the day off and either go to Chitzen-Itza, for the greatest party in the Western hemisphere, or go to Stonehenge for the greatest party in Europe. I never work on major religious holidays. But if you must, on June 21st, you record Donna Summers, and on December 21st, Edgar Winter. You see, once you understand the basic principles, the answers will be obvious. I forgot to mention of it's December 21st, 2012, you bend over and kiss your ass goodbye, unless of course, like me, you put as much faith in Mayan cosmology and Nostradamus as I do in the spammer that started this thread.-Richie

 

[John Willett]

It turns out lots of people are in this business and don't know what those terms mean...

Basically, the difference comes down to a microphone's polar pattern. If you want a microphone to pick up noises in front of a few people, a very small group, or an individual in an acoustically enhanced facility or in a venue where there isn't much reverberation, cardioid is what you're looking for. If you're targeting one person and one person only and you want to minimize sounds from elsewhere in the room, OR if you are in a gymnasium or in another very acoustically unfriendly atmosphere, you'll need to go with a supercardioid in order to reduce feedback.

Omnidirectional is another term to describe a microphone's polarity... it has a broader/wider polar pattern and will pick up sounds all around one side of it. It should be used in places where a large choir or larger group needs pick up.

Lauren

www.getavproducts.com
www.audiosupply.com

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............................


Omnidirectional is a pure pressure microphone, it reacts to changes in pressure - it (theoretically) has a completely spherical pick-up pattern and picks up from all directions (though body maskting does tend to make larger microphones a bit directional at high frequencies where the wavelength is getting close to the body size).

Fig-8 is a pure pressure-gradient microphone, it reacts to differences in pressure between the front and back of the diaphragm - it has a polar-pattern like an "8", it picks up front and rear with virtually nothing at the sides.

Cardioid is half way between omni and fig-8 and is half and half pressure and pressure-gradient - it picks up well at the front, is about 6dB down at the sides and well down at the rear.

Super-cardioid and hyper-cardioid patterns are slightly different and are about half way between cardioid and fig-8 (2 parts pressure-gradient + 1 part pressure) - these are more directional than a cardioid, but do have an out-of-phase rear lobe to contend with. To save writing it all out again, the following is an explanation I wrote a few years ago:-

During a recent meeting of the Institute of Broadcast Sound, a discussion ensued regarding the difference between super-cardioid and hyper-cardioid microphones, as many people seem to use the two terms as the same thing.

There are, however, important differences between the different types of cottage-loaf microphone patterns.

The pressure-gradient microphone with the best directivity of 4 is dubbed the hyper-cardioid. Its disadvantage, however, is the lack of rejection for sound coming directly from the rear (180º). The rejection here is only 6dB.

Trying to optimise the directional characteristics, a super-cardioid microphone with equal rejection at 90º and 180º was created. This
improves the rear rejection figure without sacrificing the side rejection figure too much, and still retains a high directional coefficient of 3.86.

The theoretical figures for the various cottage-loaf microphones are:-

Hyper-Cardioid
The hyper-cardioid microphone has it’s angle of maximum rejection at 109.5º.
It is optimised for the maximum directivity coefficient of 4.0.
Rejection at 90º is -12dB
Rejection at 180º is -6dB

Super-Cardioid
The super-cardioid microphone has it’s angle of maximum rejection at 125.3º.
It is optimised for the maximum front to rear index and has a directivity coefficient of 3.73.
Rejection at 90º is -8.7dB
Rejection at 180º is -11.6dB

"Balanced" Super-Cardioid
This super-cardioid microphone has it’s angle of maximum rejection at 120º.
It is optimised for equal attenuation at 90º and 180º, it has a directivity coefficient of 3.86.
Rejection at 90º is -9.5dB
Rejection at 180º is also -9.5dB
The attenuation at 90º is equal to the attenuation at 180º (the 180º signal being out-of-phase of course), this means that the attention is concentrated on the sound coming to the front of the microphone.

The disadvantage of the hyper-cardioid is that sounds from the rear can be too high due to the lack of rear attenuation, and the disadvantage of the standard super-cardioid is that its side rejection is not enough.

Please note that these are the theoretical figures which may differ slightly in practice.

I hope this helps.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Now see, Moresound? That's exactly what I was talking about. You live in a fine self-centered fantasy world, like the original poster, uncluttered by the pernicious effects of *facts*, and along comes some expert, ruining it all by spewing *the truth*! It's because of dangerous creeps like that that the world is no longer flat. And just what do you think all those unemployed turtles are supposed to do, huh? Sing "So Happy Together", and try to live off the residuals of *one* hit? We need to take a lesson from the Inquisition. I assure you- after about 10 minutes on the rack or the strapado, that heretic Mr. Willet will be *certain* that omnis only record on one side, and will retract his statement publicly (before we burn him).-Richie

 

[dgatwood]

No, no, it's pressure gradients all the way down.

 

[moresound]

Now see, Moresound? That's exactly what I was talking about. You live in a fine self-centered fantasy world, like the original poster, uncluttered by the pernicious effects of *facts*, and along comes some expert, ruining it all by spewing *the truth*! It's because of dangerous creeps like that that the world is no longer flat. And just what do you think all those unemployed turtles are supposed to do, huh? Sing "So Happy Together", and try to live off the residuals of *one* hit? We need to take a lesson from the Inquisition. I assure you- after about 10 minutes on the rack or the strapado, that heretic Mr. Willet will be *certain* that omnis only record on one side, and will retract his statement publicly (before we burn him).-Richie

BURN HIM! I LOVE A GOOD WITCH/SNAKE OIL SALESMAN BURNING

 

[getavproducts]

Do you often scan forums to find the most fun comment to attack? So smart... too smart to deal with the average installer who NEVER knows what they want or how something works. So smart, I suppose you know who the inventor of the SM58 and SM57 for Shure is... and I suppose you also know the name of his grandDAUGHTER, Lauren.

 

[Chili]

Do you often scan forums to find the most fun comment to attack? So smart... too smart to deal with the average installer who NEVER knows what they want or how something works. So smart, I suppose you know who the inventor of the SM58 and SM57 for Shure is... and I suppose you also know the name of his grandDAUGHTER, Lauren.

Ummmm, okaaaay.....

So, let me rephrase my question to you...

So, did you post this just to spam your website??

Am I going to have to wait another 4 weeks for your answer?? Or should I just ban you now for being a spammer?

 

[moresound]

Do you often scan forums to find the most fun comment to attack? So smart... too smart to deal with the average installer who NEVER knows what they want or how something works. So smart, I suppose you know who the inventor of the SM58 and SM57 for Shure is... and I suppose you also know the name of his grandDAUGHTER, Lauren.

Yeah we've dated a few times why?

Oh that Lauren .... No.

Lets see the Studio Microphone 57 was introduced in 1965 and the Studio Microphone 58 was first introduced in 1966. So your the grandDAUGHTER of Ben Bauer?
Or one of the countless other engineers hired by the Shure brothers .... Sydney and Samuel or the "family".... to build/develop the microphones after Shure INC. licensed the patens?

 

[Marik]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............................


Omnidirectional is a pure pressure microphone, it reacts to changes in pressure - it (theoretically) has a completely spherical pick-up pattern and picks up from all directions (though body maskting does tend to make larger microphones a bit directional at high frequencies where the wavelength is getting close to the body size).

Not necessarily. The double sided capsules (so called Braunmuhl-Weber design) get the Omni pattern by electrical summing of two cardioid patterns together and are not pressure capsules. Also, the directionality effect is not because of the body masking, but because of the physical size of the capsule itself.

Fig-8 is a pure pressure-gradient microphone, it reacts to differences in pressure between the front and back of the diaphragm - it has a polar-pattern like an "8", it picks up front and rear with virtually nothing at the sides.

Likewise, the double-sided capsules get the fig 8 pattern by electric subtracting two cardioid patterns, so they are not PURE pressure gradient, either. But of course, ribbons are.

Best, M

 

[getavproducts]

Any chance you might have the decency to just keep your rude comments to yourself? Keith Wilson, my grandfather was the chief design engineer for Shure. Google him. He's now dead so please be respectful. And, feel free to report as a spammer. At least I'm respectful of others which is more than I can say for most people here...