Neumanns? High quality sounding mics

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JusTheSound

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I've been talking to people and researching for the past few days and keep getting mixed feedback and different answers. So I was wondering you guys could help..

I am trying to set-up a home studio for recording rap music. I just bought a M-Box 3 mini. Everyone was telling me Neumann was the best mic so i was offered a deal on the Neumann TLM103 by a friend. But someone just told me last night that the Neumann is too acute in sound and would be too strong of a mic for the mbox3. And If i were to use it I would need to buy extra equipment.

So basically im wondering if this is true, and also what are some good studio mics you think can compete with the tlm103 by neumann but r from a diffrent brand and maybe a little cheaper?
 
The TLM 103 is an excellent mic., but it's not for everyone.

You cound try the new Neumann TLM 102.

It's cheaper than the 103 and will probably do what you want better.

The Sound On Sound review is HERE.

Available in black or satin nickel - the choice is yours.

TLM102_Z.jpg
TLM102_01_01_P.jpg
 
JusTheSound said:
the Neumann is too acute in sound and would be too strong of a mic for the mbox3. And If i were to use it I would need to buy extra equipment.
Click to expand...

i wouldn't agree with that, as it's written,

the neumann wont be 'too acute' or 'too strong' for your mbox, but it's true to say that the true potential of a high quality mic may not be heard through a cheap preamp.



bottom line is, go out and test some mics if you can. and if possible, test them with an mbox3 so you hear what you'll be getting.

i've used a tlm 103 on vocals before i found it to be hyped in the high end and a little over the top sounding,
whereas i bought a tlm 193 a while back and find it to be really natural and much nicer to use.



if you're looking for alternatives, i'm always happy to show a bias for large dynamic mics :):) like re20/sm7b/md421.

everyone of those is a classic for a reason, and i find they're a lot more forgiving with bad mic technique.
But it all boils down to what you like and what suits your voice so if possible, go out and test some gear man.
hope that's useful.
 
Steenamaroo said:
if you're looking for alternatives, i'm always happy to show a bias for large dynamic mics :):) like re20/sm7b/md421.

everyone of those is a classic for a reason, and i find they're a lot more forgiving with bad mic technique.
Click to expand...


Seems as this can never be stressed enough.
One doesn't always need a condenser to record vocals yet in every add you see...............:rolleyes:







:cool:
 
Yes, all is right with the world now. :D
Looks like our work here is done <closed fists on hips in super hero pose>








:cool:
 
"Too strong of a mic" doesn't make much sense to me.

Neumann as a company has a long history through the 20th century of making outstanding quality microphones. Somewhere in the 1990's Neumann Berlin went bankrupt and got bought out by Sennheiser, so the current crop of Neumann mics are actually Sennheisers. They aren't replacements for the historic and revered models of the past, but the name still has value if you want to run a professional studio where you figure you might have clients that would expect to see the name Neumann represented in your mic collection.

Other high quality mic manufacturers include Microtech Geffell (which is actually another "branch" of the ORIGINAL Neumann company discovered when the Berlin wall came down, and operates as the only company with roots to the original Neumanns), Bock, Schoeps, Brauner and a few others. If you're considering a TLM 103 you should also be looking into things like the Bock 195.

Also, as pointed out already, high quality, good sounding dynamic mics are much less expensive than high quality, good sounding condensers. If you're building a mic locker, it might be a good idea to look at one or two really good sounding, versatile mics that will hold value over time. You might want to consider some Shure, Electrovoice and Beyerdynamic models.

It also makes sense to audition the mics for yourself to make a buying decision, but knowing what to listen for and how to evaluate a mic is a learning process that could take some time and focus in a few other areas of recording. The quality of your room and monitoring chain are important factors.

Good luck.
 
JusTheSound said:
Alright I will try to run a few tests.

If the Mbox 3 isnt high quality what can I get that is better?
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A lot of things, but the new Mboxes are actually pretty nice. They are supposed to be a big improvement over the Mbox 2. If you want something better, you're liable to spend at least $1000 on a preamp before you notice any difference.

Neumann mics are always good. I kinda like dynamics for vocals, but that could just be because neither I or my vocalist have particularly good technique. Or it could be that I just don't have the right condenser. The point is, don't just sit around reading what we have to say. Get a feel for good brands and go try some stuff out if you can. The "right" mic is always going to depend on what you're recording.

But I can't say that I've ever heard of any mic being "too strong" for anything, so I wouldn't worry about that.
 
It depends on the device. Many condensers run hot to my Korg MR-1000's native preamps. With SM81s I was near 8:30 on the gain knob. At 7:00, I can't go any lower... Unfortunately it sounds best at 10:00 to 2:00. External preamps help to overcome that quirk and a few others.

You should factor in your recording environment. If you don't have a particularly well treated room. Or a quiet neighborhood. A dynamic can go a long way to reject those noises. Like the EV-RE20 or SM7b. Otherwise condensers can be a bit better at picking up those finer details for the what you hear is what you get WYHIWYG types.
 
Neumann makes great mics. The TLM 103 is one of their lower end ones. Some people think the U47 is the best mic ever, but if it doesn't work with your voice, you are still screwed.

There is no "best mic", because they are all good at something. Your job is to match the mic with the source.

I'm doing a high profile old school R&B project. The main vocalist has a very distinctive voice. The mic I'm using on him is a Cascade M20 that was a give-a-way when you bought a bunch of stuff from AMS. It's a very cheap mic, but it the exact mic we need to make his voice sit in the mix. The $3500 Neumann U87 wouldn't work.
 
Farview said:
Neumann makes great mics. The TLM 103 is one of their lower end ones. Some people think the U47 is the best mic ever, but if it doesn't work with your voice, you are still screwed.

There is no "best mic", because they are all good at something. Your job is to match the mic with the source.

I'm doing a high profile old school R&B project. The main vocalist has a very distinctive voice. The mic I'm using on him is a Cascade M20 that was a give-a-way when you bought a bunch of stuff from AMS. It's a very cheap mic, but it the exact mic we need to make his voice sit in the mix. The $3500 Neumann U87 wouldn't work.
Click to expand...

That is such a gas when you find something like that and it works!
 
snow lizard said:
Somewhere in the 1990's Neumann Berlin went bankrupt and got bought out by Sennheiser, so the current crop of Neumann mics are actually Sennheisers.
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This is not true at all!

Please get your facts right! :spank:

Neumann never went bankrupt at all.

After Georg Neumann died, the Neumann family wanted to sell the company instead of continuing to run it.

A certain Japanese company were interested, I understand, but wanting to keep a top German company German, it was bought by Sennheiser.


The current microphones are *not* "Sennheisers" at all, but are absolutely Neumann in all respect. The way Sennheiser make microphones is totally different.

To avoid the high costs of having two manufacturing plants - the Neumann machinery was moved from Berlin to Hanover and installed in a separate part of the Sennheiser complex. The current microphones are all made on a Neumann production line on the equipment that was moved from Berlin.

The Neumann Head Office is still in Berlin and the staff there (most of them as far as I am aware) were all with Neumann before it was purchased by Sennheiser - certainly the microphone designers are.

So, a modern Neumann is still a Neumann and the way the company has progressed, as far as I am aware, is the same as it would have done had Georg Neumann still been alive.

A Neumann is still a Neumann and is not a Sennheiser in any way.

You never hear anyone call a Bentley a Škoda just because they have the same owner. :rolleyes:
 
Here in the US Neumanns are distributed by Sennheiser from the state of Connecticut. Just seems weird but as you said John ..... Neumanns are Neumanns and Sennheisers are Sennheisers. There is no doubt about that!








:cool:
 
Along with some good advice dispensed by folks like John Willett...

Another good path IMHO would be to buy/try at least one of the following;

1) Beyer M88
2) Shure SM57 (w/foam pop filter)
3) Electro-Voice EV 635a

If you're recording others, would suggest getting all three.

One of a number of advantages is that these are all handheld, in addition to hearing less
room tone than a condenser.

Chris
 
moresound said:
Here in the US Neumanns are distributed by Sennheiser from the state of Connecticut. Just seems weird but as you said John ..... Neumanns are Neumanns and Sennheisers are Sennheisers. There is no doubt about that!
:cool:
Click to expand...

And in fact both are an excellent brand of microphones, good to see Neumann being owned by another top mic company, not some cut price mob who will use the name and launch a budget (cheap) model. I am a big fan of sennheiser mics:

Sennheiser K3U/ME80, 2 off
Sennheiser K3U/ME40, 3 off
Sennheiser K3U/ME20, 2 off
Sennheiser MD421, 2 off



Cheers
Alan.
 
John Willett said:
This is not true at all!

The current microphones are *not* "Sennheisers" at all, but are absolutely Neumann in all respect.
Click to expand...

The logo looks the same. As far as I know, the only model that's close to the old ones is the U87 Ai, which apparently doesn't sound quite like the older versions. All the other models are totally different.


John Willett said:
The way Sennheiser make microphones is totally different.
Click to expand...

True enough. Microtech Gefell still makes PVC and nickel diaphragm capsules for some of their microphones, and is the only producer of the original M7.

As far as I know, MG doesn't make the same products as the old Neumann company, but neither does the new Neumann company. Not to say they're bad mics by any stretch, but for the money there's other places to look.
 
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