Studio left a bad taste in my mouth...

[kool98769]

So, my band is almost finished recording a demo now. I'm not originally from here but 3/5 in our band have recorded at a couple different places here, so we decided on a place to go based of their personal experience and the pretty cheap price, being that we were just recording a demo.

Well, the studio is ancient. still uses 8 tracks. Nothing is done digitally, it's fully analog. The guy has been doing recording/radio for 30 years. This makes it a serious pain in the ass to do things. The only way to fix any bad runs is to find a good place to punch in where he isn't going to cut anything off. Of course it's the same on a digital system, but on this you can't just record it on a seperate track and then just cut off the excess waveform and throw it back in the other track...and he was pretty pushy about where to place the mic on my amp. that really pushed my buttons. Saying that moving my mic from like, the center of the speaker towards the edge a bit more to get less of an icepick treble, and get atleast a little bit of low end made him tell me that the sound would be out of phase then..wtf?

Anyway, basically what i hope to accomplish is from now on when we recording, is to go to a nice studio, record the drums, and then take that track, and do everything else ourselves, except maybe vocals.

I have a DAW, know how to use it. I know a little bit about mixing. But i could always send someone else tracks to mix too, so i guess that's whatever. Our bassist is going to college for audio production too, so maybe he can help me out, but he always settles for way less than i am willing to, so i think it would be better if i did it myself.

So what kind of equipment am i going to want? I'd like to get atleast pretty descent stuff from the start. Right now I have a tascam 144 USB interface. I seem to run into a lot of problems with it causing my DAWs to freeze and dumb shit like that, and i can't imagine the mic preamps are that nice being that it only cost 100something. So i'm pretty sure the first thing i need to do is invest in a good interface. My laptop unfortunately does not have firewire, so if it's a firewire interface i'll probably need to grab a firewire card.

I'm not looking for something that is totally awesome, but something that is atleast legit. The thought of grabbing a used digidesign 002 seemed like a fairly good idea. I feel like that would be a pretty solid foundation, yes?

Then after that, I was hoping in investing in a mid range condensor, probably large diaphram. I already have a SM58, and probably attaining a SM57 or a different instrument mic soon.

And our bassist's amp has an XLR out, so that definitely helps. Or i could just do bass direct in. i'd figure out something with that.

but yeah, suggestions for what to do? I was hoping that if i could get a little bit of experience under my belt, maybe in a few years i'll take the dive and invest more and more and eventually have enough equipment for something a little more legit. But the thing I have going for me (IMO) is that I'm not satisfied where almost everyone that i'm around isn't. Hopefully that will push me above and beyond.

TL;DR - skip the first two paragraphs.
i.e. I want a good digital recording interface with a descent preamp. Was thinking used DigiDesign 002.

 

[TetraFish]

I have a presonus Firestudio that I'm really happy with. The presonus gear seams to have pretty good rep as far as the pre amps go. There's also the firestudio project for a couple hundred cheaper if budget is a huge concern.

Presonus or not I'd get something with at least 8 ins. Sounds like you'd out grow anything less in a hurry.

here's a comparison chart that may help....
http://www.tweakheadz.com/audio_interface_fw_comparison_chart.htm

You may also want to spend some time reading the Tweakheadz guide...
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

 

[kool98769]

I have a presonus Firestudio that I'm really happy with. The presonus gear seams to have pretty good rep as far as the pre amps go. There's also the firestudio project for a couple hundred cheaper if budget is a huge concern.

Presonus or not I'd get something with at least 8 ins. Sounds like you'd out grow anything less in a hurry.

here's a comparison chart that may help....
http://www.tweakheadz.com/audio_interface_fw_comparison_chart.htm

You may also want to spend some time reading the Tweakheadz guide...
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

But do you think 8 would be overkill? I mean, i'm not gonna have the money to be able to afford all the mics to record quality drums for probably a year or two. By that time would my 8 channel preamp be obsolete?

 

[TetraFish]

You can get a unit with 2 or 4 but when you outgrow it, it's going to be useless. I guess you could be right about it being obsolete in a couple years. Really it's your call.

 

[stevieb]

...so we decided on a place to go based of their personal experience and the pretty cheap price, being that we were just recording a demo.

Well, the studio is ancient. still uses 8 tracks. Nothing is done digitally, it's fully analog. The guy has been doing recording/radio for 30 years.

The only way to fix any bad runs...and he was pretty pushy about where to place the mic on my amp. that really pushed my buttons. Saying that moving my mic from like, the center of the speaker towards the edge a bit more to get less of an icepick treble, and get atleast a little bit of low end made him tell me that the sound would be out of phase then..wtf?

what i hope to accomplish is from now on when we recording, is to go to a nice studio, record the drums, and then take that track, and do everything else ourselves, except maybe vocals.

I have a DAW, know how to use it. I know a little bit about mixing...Our bassist is going to college for audio production too, so maybe he can help me out, but he always settles for way less than i am willing to, so i think it would be better if i did it myself.

Dude, you are going off SERIOUSLY half-cocked. You complain about the studio's equipment, but you say nothing about the results you got. Some VERY good, professional recording, that became gold-record selling albums, were recorded to "only" 8 tracks, and you can bet you young ass they were recorded analog. 30 years' experience is nothing to sneeze at. If he's been doing "recording/radio" all that time, he must be doing something right- nobody last that long in the same industry otherwise. Further, all the things he "insisted" on doing are boiler-plate techniques- they work. It's your responsibility to get your playing right and tight so that a minimum of re-tracking is needed. Punch-in is something that should be needed only occasionally.

So, your bassist, who is presumably planning to make something of a career of studio recording, and spending his time and money to learn how to do that, is not up to your lofty standards? Man, the poor sots who play in your band must be masochist, to put up with your ego. It might not be so bad if your knowledge rivaled your ego, but it's a sucker bet to say it does.

You've already impuned this guy's professional reputation. Word gets around- your name is probably already Mudd among the professional studios in your town- chances are nobody there is going to play your "I want you to do the hard work of recording drums and then vocals, but I decide where the mics get placed" game.

Face it, kid, this guy knows what he is doing and you don't. You got two choices: castration, or a one-way ticket to New York... No, wait, that's something entirely different (and a cheroot to the first person to name the reference)... your two choices are to go, hat in hand, back to this guy who has probably been recording professionally longer than you may have been alive, and ask, or maybe beg him to let you into his studio again, or go the whole route on your own. Frankly, I am a bit surprised anybody here is willing to give you any advise. You'll get no more from me until you adjust your attitude. I am genuinely disgusted.

With the attitude you have now, it probably is best you do it alone- all alone- nobody with half a brain is going to want to work with you, anyway.

Talk about leaving a bad taste in one's mouth...

 

[austinm08]

Yeah, stevie, I was questioning some of that, too.

But, I can't figure out if it was the experienced engineer or the OP who was saying to move the mic off-center...

...and he was pretty pushy about where to place the mic on my amp. that really pushed my buttons. Saying that moving my mic from like, the center of the speaker towards the edge a bit more to get less of an icepick treble, and get atleast a little bit of low end made him tell me that the sound would be out of phase then..wtf?

 

[dgatwood]

Yeah, but an eight track studio? That means you're either bouncing tracks constantly or you have to mix down your drums perfectly on the first shot. I mean, sure, you don't have to have a 32-track analog studio---you can usually get away with sixteen tracks, but eight is really seriously pushing it for modern music, IMO, and generally requires a lot of compromises.

Also, if the artist doesn't like the way the bass is sounding, an engineer is doing them a disservice by refusing to try alternate mic placement, and the argument about it being out of phase is just complete and utter crap.

So I'm going to have to disagree with my compatriot here. I'm not saying that the studio was a bad studio, but I do agree that it wasn't the right choice for your band. Some of that is likely the studio's fault, some of it is likely yours (practice, practice, practice).

 

[kool98769]

Dude, you are going off SERIOUSLY half-cocked. You complain about the studio's equipment, but you say nothing about the results you got. Some VERY good, professional recording, that became gold-record selling albums, were recorded to "only" 8 tracks, and you can bet you young ass they were recorded analog. 30 years' experience is nothing to sneeze at. If he's been doing "recording/radio" all that time, he must be doing something right- nobody last that long in the same industry otherwise. Further, all the things he "insisted" on doing are boiler-plate techniques- they work. It's your responsibility to get your playing right and tight so that a minimum of re-tracking is needed. Punch-in is something that should be needed only occasionally.

So, your bassist, who is presumably planning to make something of a career of studio recording, and spending his time and money to learn how to do that, is not up to your lofty standards? Man, the poor sots who play in your band must be masochist, to put up with your ego. It might not be so bad if your knowledge rivaled your ego, but it's a sucker bet to say it does.

You've already impuned this guy's professional reputation. Word gets around- your name is probably already Mudd among the professional studios in your town- chances are nobody there is going to play your "I want you to do the hard work of recording drums and then vocals, but I decide where the mics get placed" game.

Face it, kid, this guy knows what he is doing and you don't. You got two choices: castration, or a one-way ticket to New York... No, wait, that's something entirely different (and a cheroot to the first person to name the reference)... your two choices are to go, hat in hand, back to this guy who has probably been recording professionally longer than you may have been alive, and ask, or maybe beg him to let you into his studio again, or go the whole route on your own. Frankly, I am a bit surprised anybody here is willing to give you any advise. You'll get no more from me until you adjust your attitude. I am genuinely disgusted.

With the attitude you have now, it probably is best you do it alone- all alone- nobody with half a brain is going to want to work with you, anyway.

Talk about leaving a bad taste in one's mouth...

I don't have an ego. I just know what i'm capable of. I wasn't the one who was having troubles getting the takes done either.

He hasn't been doing audio production/radio as a full time career, but more as a side gig.

I don't know what the final results sound like yet, because the other guitarist still hasn't finished his parts, and the bassist still has to track 2 songs yet.

I don't give a shit if led zeppelin used only 8 tracks. It's modern days. I personally would have liked to double track guitars, but we couldn't due to the fact of only having 8 tracks.

And no, the bassist gives up too early on things. I was the one wanting to redo my takes, not the rest of the band. I'm not satisfied if i made an obvious timing mistake.

I don't give a shit where the mics are placed for drums. All i know is that i was not satisfied at all with how he wanted to place the mic for the guitar. Telling me that it will be out of phase if i move the mic from the center of the speaker towards the edge is not my idea of finding a guitar tone I like. I have professional gear, that i have set up to sound good. If he ruins my tone with shitty mic placement, I'm going to want to move it, if i have gotten better tones myself through other recordings.

He has been recording for longer than I have been alive. Now how the hell does that make his ear for guitar tone any better than mine? Oh wait, it doesn't. Because my band's style of music hasn't even been around for 1/3 of the time he has been recording.

Any more personal attacks you want me to refute? Give it a shot.

Yeah, stevie, I was questioning some of that, too.

But, I can't figure out if it was the experienced engineer or the OP who was saying to move the mic off-center...

It was the engineer who told me that moving the mic off center was going to make the guitar go out of phase and "it will sound hollow". And i know it was bullshit.

Yeah, but an eight track studio? That means you're either bouncing tracks constantly or you have to mix down your drums perfectly on the first shot. I mean, sure, you don't have to have a 32-track analog studio---you can usually get away with sixteen tracks, but eight is really seriously pushing it for modern music, IMO, and generally requires a lot of compromises.

Also, if the artist doesn't like the way the bass is sounding, an engineer is doing them a disservice by refusing to try alternate mic placement, and the argument about it being out of phase is just complete and utter crap.

So I'm going to have to disagree with my compatriot here. I'm not saying that the studio was a bad studio, but I do agree that it wasn't the right choice for your band. Some of that is likely the studio's fault, some of it is likely yours (practice, practice, practice).

8 tracks was really a pain in the ass for some songs. For instance, one of the songs we recorded had 3 different vocal parts. He was trying to make us all do them at once over 1 track. Which was a serious pain in the ass, because we all had different singing volumes, so if one of us wasn't good on volume, we had to restart. This happened 3 times before i pointed out the fact that we had an extra track open. Then we got it in 2 takes.


And in NO way am i saying that studios are a bad thing. I'm sure i just had a bad experience. I even had forewarning from our singer, who had recorded with him before, saying he was stubborn. I'm just saying, that as far as guitar sounds go, i KNOW i can do better than what he had happen. Hell, I thought the drums sounded pretty damn good. But the guy was just an asshole when it came to experimenting with sound at all.

 

[meowadishi]

Wasn't this a demo you were recording? I mean I could be wrong but double tracked guitar for a demo seems like a bit too much.

Also did you not know it was a full analog studio with only 8 tracks when you booked it? Because to me that part of the head ache could have been avoided. Which leads me to my next point...Maybe. Just maybe you were not happy with the studio choice in the first place and that had you not going in there with the best attitude.

I say don't worry about it. I am sure it will come out wonderful. "your not being dude like".

anyways

 

[austinm08]

I just typed my reply and got a "database error" when submitting.. I hate you, HR... ARGH.
Went back and it's lost. I'll retype...

--------------

I know what you mean when you say you can't settle with anything sub-par. I'm the same way. Most people I've worked with (in areas other than recording, too) will settle for less than I ever will. I also don't have a big ego, nor do I think that has anything to do with this. If anything, it might even be the other way around in that we can see our mistakes and want to try harder to do things correctly. I've seen it happen: the egotist kind of person will record something and think it's the best thing in the world when it clearly SUCKS.. solely because he is an idiot and full of himself.

I think that that engineer needs to be a bit more open-minded about recording, too.

 

[Terra]

sidestepping the arguments, +1 for Presonus, they make a great product. I use a Mackie Onyx 400F, which is discontinued, but I thought it was a little overkill when I first got it, but as I got better at recording and what have you, I found that it was perfect for my needs. It's in our blood to acquire gear, so get something that you can accommodate your G.A.S. syndrome with later down the road.

T

 

[stevieb]

...I don't know what the final results sound like yet, because the other guitarist still hasn't finished his parts, and the bassist still has to track 2 songs yet...

Yep, seriously half-cocked, just like I suspected. You just proved my point- I could just stop now...

Putting asside the "out of phase" comment (which I suspect was simply a mis-speak,) placing the mic off-center of the speaker cone will RECORD the best. This is such common knowledge that you should already know if if you are going to be calling the shots in the studio. Which is something you should not be doing. As guitarist, your job ends at the speaker, his begins there. "...he's stubborn?" Sounds like you are digging in your heels, too. For better or worse, His studio, his domain: Get used to it, or get sub-standard results and a reputation of a meddlesome "artist." Your singer told you he is stubborn, and you ignored him/her, and you must have known (you did ASK, I would think) that he was recording to 8 tracks- if the studio/engineer was not to your liking, you should have gone elsewhere- it was YOUR choice.

Somebody had to take you to the woodshed, and your OP was so cheeky, so "I'm a great guitar god (translation: I'm a brat who wants my own way)" that itjust hit a nerve with me. It's now the next morning, and I have re-read my post- and guess what? I don't feel the need to take back a single thing I said. Frankly, I don't know why I wasted my time- I already knew that you don't listen to ANYBODY.

I'm done with this thread, won't be coming back.

 

[rayc]

Don't worry: you're not the 1st or last person to go into a studio believing he/she know more/better/the latest than the engineer & producer. You have, in common with that entire ilk, a predetermined standard that only you & all the right gear can meet.
Did you suss out the studio even a little before you went in? Did you let your bandmates know of your grave concerns re the level of technology? Did you pay a lot of money?
ONLY eight tracks - oh dear. Oh, my interface only has 8 inputs, oh dear.
The figure eight when turned on its side represents infinity: so go back to the 8 track analogue studio, thank him for using his skill & nice equipment and ask if it can be turned on its side to have unrestricted recording.
You can double track until the cows come home if you think and plan. How do you think multitracking was done on 1, 2, 4, 8 etc tracks?
Use the noodle & bounce some tracks AFTER you get them right. Seriously, I have masses of tracks available inside the old Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.3 I use but I retack if I stuff up.
Perhaps the engineer knows something about the gear or room that you don't and has his reasons for mic placement. Did you ask him to explain so that you would understand and therefore comply with/support his determinations? I hope you didn't just go along with him/her whilst harbouring a grudge that you'd bring up elsewhere. Maybe he was sussing you out with a striped paint/ skyhook/ left handed screwdriver thing!
You can get the drums done & then take them home to do the rest. Hey, get the drums done 8 track analogue for that excellent old fashioned tape compression sound that you'd have to use a VST plug in to get...BUT what about treating your recording & monitoring spaces?
What about the monitoring gear? Not headphones I hope!
What about the efficiencies & expertise you will do not yet have?
By all means record yourselves: that's what most folk on this site do after all but...do it with some forethought & knowledge if you expect to be able to record songs by a full band of multitracking mastery from the get go.
Oh, there's is one other bit... rehearse until you get it right then you won't have so many problems in your home studio.
Hey, if you'll have the money for all the good mics etc in a year or two you won't worry about a redundant interface will you?
By then it'll be even more modern days.
Laptop - well, hmmm. I know a lot of people use them to record but they are design/hardware/cost/size compromise incarnate!

 

[TetraFish]

Yep, seriously half-cocked, just like I suspected. You just proved my point- I could just stop now...

Putting asside the "out of phase" comment (which I suspect was simply a mis-speak,) placing the mic off-center of the speaker cone will RECORD the best. This is such common knowledge that you should already know if if you are going to be calling the shots in the studio. Which is something you should not be doing. As guitarist, your job ends at the speaker, his begins there. "...he's stubborn?" Sounds like you are digging in your heels, too. For better or worse, His studio, his domain: Get used to it, or get sub-standard results and a reputation of a meddlesome "artist." Your singer told you he is stubborn, and you ignored him/her, and you must have known (you did ASK, I would think) that he was recording to 8 tracks- if the studio/engineer was not to your liking, you should have gone elsewhere- it was YOUR choice.

Somebody had to take you to the woodshed, and your OP was so cheeky, so "I'm a great guitar god (translation: I'm a brat who wants my own way)" that itjust hit a nerve with me. It's now the next morning, and I have re-read my post- and guess what? I don't feel the need to take back a single thing I said. Frankly, I don't know why I wasted my time- I already knew that you don't listen to ANYBODY.

I'm done with this thread, won't be coming back.

Holy freakin freak out Batman!

Relax a bit, I think your reading way too much into the one paragraph in the OP. Yeah, maybe they should have known it was an 8 track analog studio but so what? The guy didn't like it and he is the one paying for the service after all. And the way I read it they are trying to mic the center of the speaker and Kool is telling them to try and get a bit more midrange by moving it out a bit. I don't know about you but anytime I've miced an amp dead on in the center it sounded like complete crap. And alls he said was that it pushed his buttons. It doesn't sound like he went all diva on them.

 

[TetraFish]

placing the mic off-center of the speaker cone will RECORD the best. This is such common knowledge that you should already know if if you are going to be calling the shots in the studio.

Again if I read the original post right it's Kool98769 that wants to move the mic off-center and they are giving him some BS story about the sound being out of phase.

 

[Lt. Bob]

as a VERY experienced player and studio guy, I wanna jump in and say that nothing the OP posted made him seem like his ego was out of control at all.
He wasn't happy with a dipshit engineer proclaiming how things were and refusing to even try anything else.

I KNOW what my reaction would have been ..... it would have gone like this ... "first off the mic CAN'T be out of phase if there's only one mic and further .... I'm paying for this and you'll try what I want you to try or we'll pack up and find a different studio that's competent."

I don't put up with people I'm paying money to refusing to be responsive to my requests.


Kool ....... actually, 8 tracks CAN be enough if the engineer doesn't suck. I would have done those three vocals on seperate tracks and pinged them down to one so quick you wouldn't even know about it. The biggest single lack you had there was the engineer.

 

[kool98769]

Yep, seriously half-cocked, just like I suspected. You just proved my point- I could just stop now...

Putting asside the "out of phase" comment (which I suspect was simply a mis-speak,) placing the mic off-center of the speaker cone will RECORD the best. This is such common knowledge that you should already know if if you are going to be calling the shots in the studio. Which is something you should not be doing. As guitarist, your job ends at the speaker, his begins there. "...he's stubborn?" Sounds like you are digging in your heels, too. For better or worse, His studio, his domain: Get used to it, or get sub-standard results and a reputation of a meddlesome "artist." Your singer told you he is stubborn, and you ignored him/her, and you must have known (you did ASK, I would think) that he was recording to 8 tracks- if the studio/engineer was not to your liking, you should have gone elsewhere- it was YOUR choice.

Somebody had to take you to the woodshed, and your OP was so cheeky, so "I'm a great guitar god (translation: I'm a brat who wants my own way)" that itjust hit a nerve with me. It's now the next morning, and I have re-read my post- and guess what? I don't feel the need to take back a single thing I said. Frankly, I don't know why I wasted my time- I already knew that you don't listen to ANYBODY.

I'm done with this thread, won't be coming back.

Good, because I don't want to waste the time explaining myself again.

And besides, I am the one who WANTED to move the mic off center. Not him.
The only reason i dug in my heels with guitar tone is BECAUSE I KNEW WHAT HE WAS TELLING ME WAS WRONG.

I don't claim to be a guitar god. I know plenty of people who can play better me. But I can promise you that i can play my songs right after the second take, but hell, i should be able to. i wrote them, not the other guitarist.

And telling me to just sit back and let the engineer do absolutely everything would be fine with me....if i was satisfied with my guitar tone. When he makes my $3,000 worth of guitar equipment sound like a direct out from a effects send, i'm going to want to change it.

I KNOW what my reaction would have been ..... it would have gone like this ... "first off the mic CAN'T be out of phase if there's only one mic and further .... I'm paying for this and you'll try what I want you to try or we'll pack up and find a different studio that's competent."

Actually, what i said to him, was "out of phase with what?" then he was just like, "out of phase. It will sound hollow." To which i said, doesn't phase have to do with the distance with two mics?" him: "No."


Anyways, enough of the engineering talk. The point is, i want to record guitars. Maybe someday when i learn more about recording drums, and can invest more money into a set of drum mics i'll be down for that. so thanks those suggesting things.

Someone suggested me a M-Audio profire 2626. Anyone have one of these?

 

[lmf]

Did the man who has the eight track studio (analog) force you to record at his studio? Did you ask him before you selected he and his studio as to what equipment he uses? If you were only interested in price, you shouldn't blame the owner or the studio. It is likely he turns out a good product for an eight track studio.

Best wishes,

LLoyd

 

[grimtraveller]

If you want blood ~ you got it....

It hasn't yet been established if Kool knew the studio was 8 track analog beforehand.
Kool ~ did you know ?

I reckon that if Kool did know {and I'm speculating here because you have to speculate to acumulate !} they'd have gone along with it because like most of us, there would be an assumption that even in the modern day, an 8 track studio should be able to net a decent result. It's not an unrealistic assumption.
Perhaps Kool could've been a little more polite about the engineer, but their upset is coming through there. It's forgivable, after all, the guy isn't named. And surely Kool should have ideas on how to capture their guitar tone that should be listened to, at the very least. George Martin, Quincey Jones and Phil Ramone would listen to a paying customer. Their way might be the one they'd eventually go with but they'd at least listen.
Truth is, the history of music recording has seen a two way relationship/struggle/cooperation between the educated producer/engineer and the uneducated novice/ artist. Had everything for 50 years been left to the studio staff rather than artists experimenting and shoving their oar in, everything would sound like "Please please me", "Love me tender" and the Dave Clark 5.
And loads of artists have had negative studio experiences, for a variety of reasons.

Kool ~ believe it or not, you can do wonders with 8 tracks !

 

[kool98769]

It hasn't yet been established if Kool knew the studio was 8 track analog beforehand.
Kool ~ did you know ?

I reckon that if Kool did know {and I'm speculating here because you have to speculate to acumulate !} they'd have gone along with it because like most of us, there would be an assumption that even in the modern day, an 8 track studio should be able to net a decent result. It's not an unrealistic assumption.
Perhaps Kool could've been a little more polite about the engineer, but their upset is coming through there. It's forgivable, after all, the guy isn't named. And surely Kool should have ideas on how to capture their guitar tone that should be listened to, at the very least. George Martin, Quincey Jones and Phil Ramone would listen to a paying customer. Their way might be the one they'd eventually go with but they'd at least listen.
Truth is, the history of music recording has seen a two way relationship/struggle/cooperation between the educated producer/engineer and the uneducated novice/ artist. Had everything for 50 years been left to the studio staff rather than artists experimenting and shoving their oar in, everything would sound like "Please please me", "Love me tender" and the Dave Clark 5.
And loads of artists have had negative studio experiences, for a variety of reasons.

Kool ~ believe it or not, you can do wonders with 8 tracks !

I actually had no idea it was an 8 track going into it...my band mates never really told me...and i'm pretty sure the bassist is the only one who would know what the difference is, to be honest.

I was very polite until i after i asked him if i could position the mic. telling me, "I've been doing this for 30 years, just trust me." was kinda the last straw. Not that i was rude at any other point in the recording, but I was very frustrated. Even if we do things ourselves next time, it doesn't matter if I even have good mics. I got much better tone just using my slave out and using IRs.

But, my interface is worthless now, being that it causes everything to crash after it starts recording. So, upon considering a couple things, I'm going to want to just go with something that has 2-4 mic preamps. So, I have heard good things about the octane preamps in the M-Audio Profire 610's.

Although I don't really like the idea of going back to USB again, because of speed reasons, thoughts on the Mackie Onyx blackjack?

I should probably also mention that I am running Vista 64, but probably gonna be upgrading to 7 this winter.