Loud singer microphone etiquette question

[benage]

I think just notching down the input and making sure the boost is turned off is all you can do with that.



Well, I can only speak from experience. As a person who can do the soaring loud notes and often mixes them in with quieter songs, the technique has worked for me. I've never had problems with the proximity effect, a good compressor paired with a good ear evens out the meat of the vocal track.

I don't know how else you'd do it. If the singer keeps a constant average decibel level I guess that works, but if the singer employs dynamics, how do you control the peaks?

Whatever works for you I guess. I've only really learned to sing in the past couple of years and for ages I did tend to sing a bit 'all on one level' My computer actually broke about six months ago (This is typed on my phone) and since then I have managed to get more dynamics in my voice, I was just pressuming there would be enough head room if I set the preamp right to fit it all in, but maybe it won't? I have heard of people compressing vocals on the way in (not sure if logic 6 can do this or if it's got to be hardware?)

 

[grimtraveller]

but if the singer employs dynamics, how do you control the peaks?

With a stick, threats or a fast hand on the level button or mouse.

 

[guitarplayr82]

With a stick, threats or a fast hand on the level button or mouse.

Hahaha a stick.

 

[dintymoore]

I always use a compressor on the way in. I use a hardware one, I'm not sure if you can do this with software, or if you'd indeed want to.

If you record in 24 bit you can leave so much headroom that the choice of using a compressor should be a musical one, not because "you have to".

I don't like spit screens... my mic already has one and it lessens the high end to have a second. That being said, I think spit screens do serve a secondary purpose of preventing clowns from eating the mic.

Another thought is to run his headphones loud to the point that when he gets real loud it rips his ears off.

I keep wondering though if the whole problem here is just recording too hot...

 

[benage]

If you record in 24 bit you can leave so much headroom that the choice of using a compressor should be a musical one, not because "you have to".

I was thinking about that lying in bed last night, I'll just do that then if 16bit is too 'shallow'

Tried a 16/24bit comparison for sonic quality when I first got my equipment a few years back and couldn't hear a difference, but it's on my list of things to take another look at when I get a new computer.

 

[moresound]

I always use a compressor on the way in. I use a hardware one, I'm not sure if you can do this with software, or if you'd indeed want to.

If you record in 24 bit you can leave so much headroom that the choice of using a compressor should be a musical one, not because "you have to".

I don't like spit screens... my mic already has one and it lessens the high end to have a second. That being said, I think spit screens do serve a secondary purpose of preventing clowns from eating the mic.

Another thought is to run his headphones loud to the point that when he gets real loud it rips his ears off.

I keep wondering though if the whole problem here is just recording too hot...

Damn Dinty .... I swear I was giving this thread some thought last night while on a long drive and what you have listed here is exactly what I was going to suggest to the OP .... a little compression on the way in, a pop filter about 8" away from the microphone to keep him off the mic and a loud headphone mix.
One thing that I've been constantly having to do is to keep coming up with ideas like this to work around peoples EGOs.
A cat and mouse game that has been going on for years!

 

[acoustichris]

Damn Dinty .... I swear I was giving this thread some thought last night while on a long drive and what you have listed here is exactly what I was going to suggest to the OP .... a little compression on the way in, a pop filter about 8" away from the microphone to keep him off the mic and a loud headphone mix.
One thing that I've been constantly having to do is to keep coming up with ideas like this to work around peoples EGOs.
A cat and mouse game that has been going on for years!

Is there a way to put "a little compression on the way in" with GarageBand?

How do I know if I'm recording "too hot" and is the compression the way around it?

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[moresound]

With garage band I'm not sure I've never used it but with other DAWs ... yes very simple.
Myself, I use out board gear and very little plug ins.

 

[Racherik]

you could try tracking using 2 mics. One located a quarter inch away, and the other six inches. Then when you play back A/B them or maybe even blend them.

Doing this lets you claim, "We need to capture some natural room reverb." When in fact you might throw away the mic that's being eaten.

Racherik

 

[moresound]

I still think Grim has the best answer - Just smack him in the head!

You know maybe this singer is just holding you back. Just start auditioning new ones that you can work with and can understand the realities of what is trying to be accomplished.
Worst thing ever is trying to work with someone that is a pain in the arse when this part of his contribution should have been done weeks ago.

 

[acoustichris]

I still think Grim has the best answer - Just smack him in the head!

You know maybe this singer is just holding you back. Just start auditioning new ones that you can work with and can understand the realities of what is trying to be accomplished.
Worst thing ever is trying to work with someone that is a pain in the arse when this part of his contribution should have been done weeks ago.

Again, I know he is being a little stubborn but I don't want to tell him that (he needs to learn mic technique) until i know for sure that I have done everything I can possibly do (recording-wise) to help alleviate the loud distorted vocals problem.

 

[Larry Villella]

Dynamics / Distance / Tonality

There are a few things to consider in your situation

1) Working the mic (like a pro) where you back away from
the mic on the loud notes is fine on stage, but with most
condenser mics, you'll change the tonality by doing so !

Bass Proximity Boost changes and thus the whole tonal-character
changes when you move close and far from the microphone.

2) It's probably not SPL issues, but "Wind-Blast" Issues.

A jet plane rarely exceeds 130 dB, and I'm sure your singer isn't
as loud as an airplane. Are you using a Metal or Nylon Windscreen?

My advice - Try a second windscreen, like the thick clown-nose type.

Also, a Compressor is the Key to any great vocal track.

ART, RNC, it doesn't have to be a really expensive Comp to fix this.

Good Luck!

Larry Villella, Founder, ADK Microphones www.adkmic.com

 

[benage]

Is there a way to put "a little compression on the way in" with GarageBand?

How do I know if I'm recording "too hot" and is the compression the way around it?

Thanks for the help guys!

Your recording too hot if the peaks are clipping and distorting. Have you actually tried turning the gain on the preamp down as recomended earlier using the control panel on screen? Maybe the guy your recording isn't around at the moment to test it out but this will probably solve your situation. Are you recording in 16 or 24 bit files? (don't know if GarageBand does 24bit) if 16bit doesent have enough room to fit it all in without clipping then try 24bit which has more room. There's so much room in 24bit files I doubt you'll need to compress it in the way in.

 

[mgjr73]

Thanks FunkDaddy.

Here is what my digital interface looks like. Anything else I should do?

just as everybody's saying, turn down the gain... by how much? is the question.

First, turn off the boost. Then I suggest having your singer stand no more than 12" and have him sing the loud parts while checking your interface VU meters. I don't see any dB notches so just dial the gain knob down until all you see is green. It's ok to peak on red but just for a split second. Then you're good to go.

The next thing you may need to tackle is the soft parts because if the level difference between his loud and soft parts are too wide, the gain setting may be too low to pick up his voice on the soft parts. That's why you need to tell him to stop being a diva and follow your instructions to move a bit closer on soft parts and back off at loud parts. If it helps, put a barricade below waist level so he has a set distance from the mic. He has to bend his upper body to get closer (hopefully during the soft parts).

If he still clips it you may need to use a compressor while tracking. Then most likely during mixing too.

 

[guitarplayr82]

Is there a way to put "a little compression on the way in" with GarageBand?

How do I know if I'm recording "too hot" and is the compression the way around it?

Thanks for the help guys!

Yes. You can mess with the compression parameters once you enable the plugin by clicking on the rectangle where you put the plugin. I hope that makes sense...

 

[acoustichris]

Thanks for the help guys. We won't be recording again until next week so I'll try all of these suggestions then.

 

[moresound]

Yes. You can mess with the compression parameters once you enable the plugin by clicking on the rectangle where you put the plugin. I hope that makes sense...

Helps me ... but I'm not singing.

 

[moresound]

Thanks for the help guys. We won't be recording again until next week so I'll try all of these suggestions then.

In the mean time smack him in the head for practice and fun!

 

[Chibi Nappa]

So...Why are you recording in such a tiny space? It doesn't relate to the distortion problem, but you should really get a bigger room.

 

[moresound]

So...Why are you recording in such a tiny space? It doesn't relate to the distortion problem, but you should really get a bigger room.

Or a really small lead singer .... to bad Dio had to leave the planet.