Theoretical Mixing Question

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The other possibility is that there will be nothing really new and the public won't pay much attention to music anymore . . . it will merely be one of many crafts necessary to produce entertainment, like cinematography or something.
 
mshilarious said:
The other possibility is that there will be nothing really new and the public won't pay much attention to music anymore . . . it will merely be one of many crafts necessary to produce entertainment, like cinematography or something.
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There certainly is an element of truth to that, as the major "musical artists" now are increasingly not musicians or even vocalists, but rather dancers and stage show entertainers that use the music - supported by massive amounts of CPU-based coloration and correction - more as an excuse to be on stage rather than a reason.

Music itself will become a niche market.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Music itself will become a niche market.

G.
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That is what it is becoming yes. Everything has pretty much been covered. All the best songs were "taken" ( once read how some famous songwriters, one of them may have been Carol King, referred to grabbing their best melodies out of thin air rather than crafting them piece by piece ) well before I was born. The Stones have taken all the best riffs and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The Beatles have taken all the best adult nursery rhymes. The 70's owns glam rock and disco, the 80's owns gated snares, synths and wailing guitars..on it goes.

2010 is dominated by Xbox, social networking, ****, and do it yourself music ( whether people can or cannot do it themselves ) with a rearguard of established acts and constantly changing vanguard of one hit wonders.

Here is a genuine modern talent and I guess this is what the aliens tune into when whizzing past Earth in their quest for intelligent life ;)

EDIT: Hahah the word pornography is automatically censored in its contracted form..

Amerikah !!! Fuck Yeah ! Lol.
 
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SouthSIDE Glen said:
While the instruments and styles may evolve over time and styles, the basics of needing to fill the 4D mixing space do not.

In many ways, having to fill the mix properly with sitars and hurdy gurdys is not much different than having to do the same with guitars and drums or with trumpets and cellos or MiniMoogs and Arps. It really all comes down to the composition and arrangement first, and how they are or are not supported or improvised upon in the mix second. Each instrument has it's part to play, and the producer/engineer has to decide when and how to stage each one in a harmonious way.

Perhaps new instruments may mean that, at first, some canned mixing schemes (automatically put this here and that there) may not apply, but it doesn't - or at least shouldn't - take too long to listen and figure out both the instrument's role in the composition and how it fits (or doesn't) into both the arrangement and the spectrum.
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bouldersoundguy said:
In George Martin's case, he was an orchestrator before producing pop acts. His job was specifically to flesh out a chord structure and melody with lots of strings, horns etc. Doing that to folk-rock with different instruments would have not been a big jump.
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I didn't say it was a big jump~ I said that they were constantly having to adjust and change and learn as popular music developed in that period {the thought was sparked off by the books I was reading on folk rock}. Although I mentioned Martins and John, it was really a catch all for the entirety of the profession. Gaugeing interviews by many protagonists on both sides of the glass, some of the guys couldn't make the adjustments. So many times I've come across artists that say that the particular producers simply couldn't represent their music so they had to make changes. One example among many that springs to mind is Tony Clarke who produced the Moody Blues. The original members of King Crimson say that he just couldn't do it for them. So they produced themselves. Some older school producers couldn't do punk initially. Some didn't know how to do those synth bands. It took a bit of time and adjusting.
All I was really getting at was that mixing isn't a fixed art. Interviews with tons of engineers shows that, they say that themselves. Actually the George Martin point that Boulder makes is an interesting one ~ Martin was well versed in comedy records and soundworlds before the 60s began. In many ways, ideally placed to bleed that kind of thinking into the psychedelic scene as it emerged.
 
mshilarious said:
Uh . . . seriously? Just about any real classical pianist and/or composer could mop the floor with that guy. I mean he's OK, but if that's worth 4M views it's another sign of the decay of the industry.
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Citations please. Would love to hear the original and catchy melody of your modern composer condensed to 4 mins. Not some bullshit theoretical meanderings that could be achieved with a chord assist app. :cool:
 
CFox said:
Citations please. Would love to hear the original and catchy melody of your modern composer condensed to 4 mins. Not some bullshit theoretical meanderings that could be achieved with a chord assist app. :cool:
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You're serious? Wow. And you think that guy wasn't meandering with a chord assist app?

OK, try this:



Or I did say piano, didn't I, and maybe 1946 isn't modern enough, OK . . .

 
You have GOT to be taking the piss ! That is the utter most shit I have ever heard.. no wait, I hear that shit all the time on public radio classic FM.
 
CFox said:
You have GOT to be taking the piss ! That is the utter most shit I have ever heard.. no wait, I hear that shit all the time on public radio classic FM.
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Yeah, someday you'll mature. Until then, have some Xenakis and Stockhausen: :D



 
Actually I prefer Metaux to Melanges, I love the way the beat slowly shifts:

 
I dont know what meds you are operating on but ....

That shit has never passed off for genius and it never will. Bang out a wrong note and call it "deliberate dissonance to shock the listener" .....fumble everywhere completely avoiding any semblance of a memorable melody and call it a "unique performance"

Fuck me, words cant describe this shit....hang on, yes they can, its the musical equivalent of the post modern essay generator.

Try it out for yourself, everytime you refresh it generates a brand new bullshit post modern essay...just like that music you posted.

My tastes are mature btw , I grew up playing Rachmaninoff and Jazz trumpet.
 
First off, ez_willis beat you to HR ownership of the essay generator like five years ago.

Second, dissonance as a means to an end was like 80 years ago. You'll have to grasp that some people simply enjoy it.

So you grew up playing jazz but reverted to boring basic diatonic meanderings over an endless loop? What happened, man?

Also, if you can play Rach then you know what that keyboard guy was playing was quite elementary for a classical pianist, and you also know that Rach's pretty melodies were a heck of a lot more interesting. So what gives?

You would also know that Japanese dude is fully capable of playing Rach whenever he feels like it.
 
mshilarious said:
First off, ez_willis beat you to HR ownership of the essay generator like five years ago.
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Good on him ? I am here now and that is all that matters. :)

mshilarious said:
Second, dissonance as a means to an end was like 80 years ago. You'll have to grasp that some people simply enjoy it.
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Yes. Facilities all over the world are inundated with people who enjoy smearing themselves with feces also. It doesn't make it any more appealing.


mshilarious said:
So you grew up playing jazz but reverted to boring basic diatonic meanderings over an endless loop? What happened, man?
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I learned a very important law of the music universe and it goes : The more notes one plays in a performance, the less vagina one gets.

So, I got on to drum kit, then discovered the electric guitar and RAWK !


mshilarious said:
Also, if you can play Rach then you know what that keyboard guy was playing was quite elementary for a classical pianist, and you also know that Rach's pretty melodies were a heck of a lot more interesting. So what gives?

You would also know that Japanese dude is fully capable of playing Rach whenever he feels like it.
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Truthfully I didnt listen past 30 secs of each piece. The helicopter recital made me angry, who the fuck funded that garbage ? Tax dollars ?

Yes, I am sure the arty asian dude is a master tape recorder when it comes to replaying the classics.... he just needs to stay well the fuck away from composition.

No one in his camp would have the balls to say to him "You know what buddy ? It sounds like you are having a simultaneous stroke and seizure and are trying to prop yourself up on the keys" or to be more concise "That shit is fucked"
 
CFox said:
I learned a very important law of the music universe and it goes : The more notes one plays in a performance, the less vagina one gets.
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OUCH !! Every FAST Guitar player event I every went to was a sausage fest!!! ( the ONLY chicks there were DRAGGED by there boyfreinds !!!)


CFox said:
The helicopter recital made me angry, who the fuck funded that garbage ? Tax dollars ?
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They just forgot to tune up ;.................... right ?????

CFox said:
Yes, I am sure the arty asian dude is a master tape recorder when it comes to replaying the classics.... he just needs to stay well the fuck away from composition.
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Why you say that ??


CFox said:
No one in his camp would have the balls to say to him "You know what buddy ? It sounds like you are having a simultaneous stroke and seizure and are trying to prop yourself up on the keys" or to be more concise "That shit is fucked"
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What about his new clothes , did any of them mention those to him ???

lolcatsdotcomfvdd32p65hgp1szm.jpg
 
grimtraveller said:
Gaugeing interviews by many protagonists on both sides of the glass, some of the guys couldn't make the adjustments. So many times I've come across artists that say that the particular producers simply couldn't represent their music so they had to make changes. One example among many that springs to mind is Tony Clarke who produced the Moody Blues. The original members of King Crimson say that he just couldn't do it for them. So they produced themselves. Some older school producers couldn't do punk initially. Some didn't know how to do those synth bands. It took a bit of time and adjusting. All I was really getting at was that mixing isn't a fixed art.
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My take on that is that there's a whole lot of engineers and producers (in any period) who are stylistic one trick ponys who get tripped up when asked to do something outside of their specialty. I'm sure you've met musicians who had great blues rock chops, but as soon as you asked them to play some punk rock or fusion, they just don't sound right. Others can adjust their style to fit the music style and are not limited by genre. It's the same with many folks on other side of the glass; I wouldn't expect or ask Lou Adler to produce a Sgt. Pepper any more than I would expect Alan Parsons to produce a London Calling. I also would not ask Picasso to do a Rembrandt or Martin Scorsese to direct The Bridges of Madison County.

So when you add in the idea of musical production values changing and evolving over time, sometimes that evolution takes some producers out of their narrow zone that they have learned and mastered. Other producers don't have a zone but can produce music in general, being able to feel the music and adjusting the production style to match the music style.

G.
 
CFox said:
I learned a very important law of the music universe and it goes : The more notes one plays in a performance, the less vagina one gets.
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I'm not too worried about the last bit, but I do agree that Japanese dude had way too many notes, and that piece was entirely too fast. And the foot is a gimmick. But I like the note selection; I don't mind dissonant music but it still has to be very, very mellow.

So this is more my style: :D

http://www.john-cage.halberstadt.de/new/index.php?seite=news&l=e

 
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