Problem with digital connection between my soundcard and mixer

[Del Monte]

I'm running Windows XP, Service Pack 3
Card is a M-Audio Delta Audiophile 192
Mixer is an Edirol M-16DX
Type of cable is Digital Coaxial 75 Ohm with gold plugs

Hi there,

I'm having a problem with my setup between my mixer and my computer. I don't know what to do about it so I'm posting a thread here to get some help on the nature of the problem.

I am running Windows XP with Service Pack 3 on my PC and I have an M-Audio Delta Audiophile 192 sound card fitted internally inside my PC. I have recently bought some digital Coaxial 75 ohm cables from ebay to connect my mixer which is a Edirol M-16DX 16 channel mixer to my M-Audio sound card.

The trouble I'm having is when I'm playing music on my computer using either Winamp or Foobar2000 is that every so often the audio will cut out for about 2 seconds approximately and then it comes back on again. Every time it does this there is a message appears on my mixer saying that it is syncing the coaxial clock.

I think I have the correct settings for my soundcard driver in Windows. I can always post a screenshot if you think it's necessary to see the settings I have been using. So as I play my audio from my computer's soundcard into my Edirol mixer on channels 11 and 12 it will sometimes cut out and then come back. It is annoying me because I used to have my mixer connected with analogue connection but since I've switched to digital connection it keeps having this problem and the music won't play constantly from the computer.

I've also noticed tonight just before I'm writing this that I have had my mp3 player plugged into my mixer on another channel (channels 15 and 16) and when the computer has been connected to the mixer with the light lit up for digital on the control panel it has also cut out again for 2 seconds and the music coming from my mp3 player has stopped and then come back on again.

I think it is something to do with the mixer and when it syncs itself to the computer it will stop the music being played from the source inputted and into the monitor speakers which are connected to my mixer.

I can't think what it is that's causing it to cut out? I have recently bought some better quality cable with gold plugs on the ends because I thought it was because originally I had bought some cheaper cable from ebay. Buying better cable hasn't made any difference as I thought it might have been that I wasn't using good enough quality cable to link them both up. It is also annoying if I'm using Sonar to play my recordings back into my mixer, it will cut out for this 2 second gap and then return and you miss a small part of the mix that you're listening to.

So yes if anybody would like me to post some more information like a screenshot of the settings I have for my M-Audio soundcard then just let me know. I'm sure there is a solution to this. I've tried messing with the soundcard settings like the buffer setting for example but haven't got anywhere and it still keeps cutting out every so often (about 6 to 7 times an hour).

I am grateful of any help that anybody on here can suggest about this, I'm totally new to digital connections so any help is appreciated.

Del

 

[Guyver]

Doesn't the Edirol M-16DX work as an external interface? if so why are you plugging it into your internal soundcard? why not use the usb connection to the computer instead? Your probably having conflict issues between the two soundards.

 

[Del Monte]

Doesn't the Edirol M-16DX work as an external interface? if so why are you plugging it into your internal soundcard? why not use the usb connection to the computer instead? Your probably having conflict issues between the two soundards.

Well I hear what you're saying but the problem is that the Edirol M-16DX mixer doesn't work very well through the USB 2.0 interface. I've tried it many times before, it is basically crap. What they should have done would have been to introduce a Firewire interface instead of USB 2.0 as Firewire would have been faster. They say that USB 2.0 is faster on your PC but this is actually incorrect, Firewire interfaces are better. The USB 2.0 interface on my Edirol is poop, I had it all hooked up using Cakewalk Sonar and I had it all set up properly but kept experiencing drop outs all the time I had to put it down to the fact the USB 2.0 can't carry all that information properly and really it is just a bad design, there is no other explanation for it.

I decided the best way was to buy an M-Audio soundcard, a good one so I spent about £100 on one which was my limit. But the M-Audio soundcard I have is a professional one not like something like a Creative Labs for example. Connecting it up with Analogue seemed the best way, at least then using Sonar etc. you don't experience drop outs which are very annoying with USB 2.0.

But as I was saying before I decided to hook my mixer up with Digital Cables instead to improve the quality of connection between my PC and mixer. All I can say about that really is that it doesn't work, it won't allow you to connnect the input out of the soundcard into the mixer and vice versa at the same time. It is poor really in that respect and it has this problem where the music will keep cutting off and it has the message about the coaxial clock sync on the mixer LCD screen. If there is no way of having both in and out at the same time without the music cutting off then my best idea is really to just have the mixer and computer connected with one digital cable.

I have now connected the output from the mixer to the input on the M-Audio soundcard and it works better like that. I think the design of my Edirol is poor in the respects of inputting the PC into the digital channel. Maybe if I wanted something better I'd have to splash out over £1000 and buy a Pro Tools rack or something with a Firewire interface instead. I can't afford that (I'm just not that rich anyway). I have connected my soundcard into the mixer with Analogue which seems to be the only way that it will work correctly.

There is nothing else I can do really if these products like the Edirol don't do what they're supposed to. I think it's a nice mixer, it has great effects and look and controls but it just don't work in full like it should. I see now my mixer they have stopped selling them (makes me wonder) I paid about £400 for it a while ago when they first came out, I have the latest update and everything for it. I guess it's best I just leave it how it is and forget all the USB 2.0 thing etc.. It is pointless and like I said before, Edirol SHOULD have used a Firewire interface instead.... Firewire are the best!!

 

[LDS]

OK, first, I'm sorry you had issues with the USB 2.0. When I first starting using one. I ended up having to shut all kinds of stuff off (including the wireless network card) in order to get it to record glitch free. Remember, USB shares bandwidth between everything connected, so if you have other USB stuff connected, you're probably gonna have issues.

All I can say about that really is that it doesn't work, it won't allow you to connnect the input out of the soundcard into the mixer and vice versa at the same time. It is poor really in that respect and it has this problem where the music will keep cutting off and it has the message about the coaxial clock sync on the mixer LCD screen. If there is no way of having both in and out at the same time without the music cutting off then my best idea is really to just have the mixer and computer connected with one digital cable.

I'm not familiar with your unit, but I did take a quick look at the owner's manual. According to it:

DIGITAL IN Jack/Connector (channels 11/12)
These connectors accept the input of digital signals. Both
optical and coaxial-type connectors are provided.
If you press the mix controller’s DIGITAL button so it’s lit, the
digital signal will be input to channels 11/12.
* You can’t use the optical and coaxial inputs simultaneously. The M-16DX will use the first signal that it detects after you pressed the DIGITAL button.
* When inputting a digital signal, the sampling frequency of the input signal must match the sample rate of the M-16DX.

6. DIGITAL OUT Connector/Jack
These digitally output the same signal as the MAIN OUT
jacks.
Both optical and coaxial-type connectors are provided, and
both can be output simultaneously.

So it looks like you should be able to use the inputs and outputs simultaneously.

However, unless you use the USB I/O you're limited to two tracks in and out. I'd keep working to resolve the USB issues.

 

[Del Monte]

What they mean when you say that doesn't mean they do them together, they're just talking about the optical connection and the coaxial connection at the same time. They don't mean that it works connecting both input and output digital at the same time, it doesn't say anything about that in the manual.

The thing about the sample rate has to be the same it's also silly because when you're outputting from your soundcard into your mixer of course you're gonna play music with mixed sample rates. That's just how things are usually and besides that I have tried setting up the same rates in Sonar to see if it works better but it doesn't make any difference and just cuts off the same every now and again like with any other program like foobar2000 or winamp.

There really is no point in bothering to try and connect the USB 2.0 up because let's face it, the thing don't like being connected up that way. You just end up with a lot of problems and a big headache to go with it. Believe me I have tried and tried and got nowhere. It doesn't matter about having all those tracks on the USB 2.0 interface, recording into Sonar just works the same. But instead of you selecting the track in the software that you're gonna record from you just plug your instrument into the mixer and then channel the sound from the main out into your soundcard and then record from the soundcard's input and it's just the same.

I tried all that using multi channels, recording different things into Sonar at the same time through the USB 2.0 cable and guess what, it just did drop outs all the time, it just couldn't handle it at all. I even tried using a very short USB 2.0 cable to test it but it was still doing exactly the same thing.

Believe me I tried everything and this was ages ago now. I just don't see any point in trying to get the M-16DX to record in that way. Maybe there are others here who have also experienced bad USB 2.0 interfaces with devices like mine. I used to know somebody who had Pro Tools with a very nice rack that was Firewire and it worked perfectly into a Mac computer. There was no trouble with that you could set up lots of different instruments at the same time and they would record into the computer perfect. But I can't afford something like that.

I have seen Pro Tools working and then compared it to the Edirol mixer I have and I can safely say that the Edirol one doesn't even stand up to the Pro Tools. I do like my mixer, it looks cool and everything but really connecting it up with one Digital cable from the output into the PC and then everything else on analogue is the best way to have it set up. All other ways are crap and that's from all the messing around that I have already gone through previously.

 

[Guyver]

Try the tips here and see if it helps. Thats all I could suggest other than a question. Is your computer up to spec?

 

[Del Monte]

Try the tips here and see if it helps. Thats all I could suggest other than a question. Is your computer up to spec?

My PC runs fine. The last PC I built I tried connecting the M-16DX up to that one but it failed to run properly so I just put it down to trying to transfer audio through a data connection i.e. USB 2.0. I don't think you can beat using a proper audio cable connection. The latency issue can be a problem plus you can get all kinds of horrible noises coming from your mixer when it records into say Sonar.

I've since a while ago built a much faster PC, I got a big case, shoved a top of the range Asus motherboard in with a Quad core high spec and at least 4 GB's of good decent quality memory. Also with a RAID 10 over 4 1TB super fast HDDs. I have my PC set up all really well, I bet if I were to connect my Edriol using the USB 2.0 as if it were an external audio device it would have problems between the mixer and motherboard no matter what you do to your PC. I bet it would still have drop outs and still carry noises into your recordings that shouldn't be there.

I just don't really see the point in bothering with USB 2.0. What exactly would be the advantage of having it connected using that anyway is what I want you to tell me? If I'm using Sonar then if you're gonna record some music you record one track at a time and then mix them together in Sonar. I only play music on my own anyway so it's not like I would be recording multiple tracks from different instruments at the same time. If it records into the M-Audio card from the Main Out when so what?

I found before on occasions I was trying to record using the USB 2.0 and it was having lots of problems with transfering the audio through the data connection and I was playing guitar into cakewalk but everytime I would be playing something really good that I wanted to keep a drop out would occur which meant that the really good recording had just cut off in Sonar. Talk about a lot of headache, if you're recording something important and you don't know whether Sonar is gonna mess up the recording all because you're sending the audio via USB. When the soundcard is connected to the motherboard it is going through a PCI slot which is much faster and better bandwidth therefore it can handle it better.

 

[robdean]

Internal card bandwidth is better than that of external peripherals, and Firewire has some refinements that USB lacks, but to suggest that USB 2.0 is fundamentally not up to handling even stereo i/o is incorrect. My 1.6Ghz 1-core single-hard-drive Intel Atom netbook has no problems at all handling glitch-free audio i/o via USB. Of course it's no match for my quad-core workstation, but USB 2.0 serves the workstation fine too. I'm not saying there's nothing better. Just that USB 2.0 does work...

 

[Guyver]

My PC runs fine. The last PC I built I tried connecting the M-16DX up to that one but it failed to run properly so I just put it down to trying to transfer audio through a data connection i.e. USB 2.0. I don't think you can beat using a proper audio cable connection. The latency issue can be a problem plus you can get all kinds of horrible noises coming from your mixer when it records into say Sonar.

I've since a while ago built a much faster PC, I got a big case, shoved a top of the range Asus motherboard in with a Quad core high spec and at least 4 GB's of good decent quality memory. Also with a RAID 10 over 4 1TB super fast HDDs. I have my PC set up all really well, I bet if I were to connect my Edriol using the USB 2.0 as if it were an external audio device it would have problems between the mixer and motherboard no matter what you do to your PC. I bet it would still have drop outs and still carry noises into your recordings that shouldn't be there.

I just don't really see the point in bothering with USB 2.0. What exactly would be the advantage of having it connected using that anyway is what I want you to tell me? If I'm using Sonar then if you're gonna record some music you record one track at a time and then mix them together in Sonar. I only play music on my own anyway so it's not like I would be recording multiple tracks from different instruments at the same time. If it records into the M-Audio card from the Main Out when so what?

I found before on occasions I was trying to record using the USB 2.0 and it was having lots of problems with transfering the audio through the data connection and I was playing guitar into cakewalk but everytime I would be playing something really good that I wanted to keep a drop out would occur which meant that the really good recording had just cut off in Sonar. Talk about a lot of headache, if you're recording something important and you don't know whether Sonar is gonna mess up the recording all because you're sending the audio via USB. When the soundcard is connected to the motherboard it is going through a PCI slot which is much faster and better bandwidth therefore it can handle it better.

Why I ask about your pc, is that in the specs it tells you it doesn't guarantee non intel compliant hardware so that seems to rule out AMD etc for this interface. Are you running intel cpu's?

 

[Del Monte]

Why I ask about your pc, is that in the specs it tells you it doesn't guarantee non intel compliant hardware so that seems to rule out AMD etc for this interface. Are you running intel cpu's?

Yes, my last PC I built was an Intel Dual Core and now I have an Intel Quad Core.

 

[dgatwood]

I'm running Windows XP, Service Pack 3
Card is a M-Audio Delta Audiophile 192
Mixer is an Edirol M-16DX
Type of cable is Digital Coaxial 75 Ohm with gold plugs

The trouble I'm having is when I'm playing music on my computer using either Winamp or Foobar2000 is that every so often the audio will cut out for about 2 seconds approximately and then it comes back on again. Every time it does this there is a message appears on my mixer saying that it is syncing the coaxial clock.

Barring something like a virus scan suddenly hogging the CPU, it sounds like there's a problem with the S/PDIF connection. Since you've ruled out the cable, that pretty much leaves the mixer and the Delta card. Oh, and a third possibility: you do have the Delta set to use the S/PDIF connection as an external clock source, right? If not, the two devices' clocks will drift apart and you'll get that sort of problem.

 

[Del Monte]

Internal card bandwidth is better than that of external peripherals, and Firewire has some refinements that USB lacks, but to suggest that USB 2.0 is fundamentally not up to handling even stereo i/o is incorrect. My 1.6Ghz 1-core single-hard-drive Intel Atom netbook has no problems at all handling glitch-free audio i/o via USB. Of course it's no match for my quad-core workstation, but USB 2.0 serves the workstation fine too. I'm not saying there's nothing better. Just that USB 2.0 does work...

Glitch free?

 

[Del Monte]

Barring something like a virus scan suddenly hogging the CPU, it sounds like there's a problem with the S/PDIF connection. Since you've ruled out the cable, that pretty much leaves the mixer and the Delta card. Oh, and a third possibility: you do have the Delta set to use the S/PDIF connection as an external clock source, right? If not, the two devices' clocks will drift apart and you'll get that sort of problem.

They both work fine. External doesn't work with it, I've tried but you can't get it to sync properly so I just use internal. It's the only way, my Delta card works perfect, no doubt about it...