Line 6 is going to turn the mic world upside down

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kcearl said:
Alicia Keys (I know not everyones cup of tea) recorded her last album with her signature samples from NI.......damned if anyone here or who actually bought the album would be able to point them out...and they sell for $119
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Yup, and she's not alone. Superior Drummer was on Whitney Houston's new album... that's, what, $230? Well, they used the New York Studios Expansion Pack which would have been a bit extra on top of that :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwlEkiiREFA

If its good enough for a multi-platinum artist, why can't some purist home recordists accept that these things exist, they're being used successfully in music releases, and they're not going away any time soon?

Can't argue with 2.5m Youtube views. I'd rather use some fake drums and people enjoy it for what it is than being the kid hunched in the corner smacking a drum and repeating "it has to be real, it has to be real, it has to be real, it has to be real" endlessly.
 
miroslav said:
I have several "decent" amps...and I can hear/feel a difference with all of them (it's got nothing to do with any "religion")...and that is why there are no digital amp modelers in my studio. :)
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Possibly granting you the exception that maybe when you say "studio" you mean your home studio you use, and not a studio you book and record other bands in...

...but this makes no sense to me. I'm a tube snob, through and through, but even I'll admit that for some sounds a modeler just seems to work. The whole "djent" thing really seems to work well with speaker simulation, and I'd be hard pressed to beat a modeler for electronica/metal stuff. Sometimes a very "direct" sounding clean guitar can work wonders for a part, too, and even after I'd mostly retired my old Johnson J-Station (which I did mostly use for late night demoing sessions), I still kept a few really whacked out saved patches for the occasional really bizarre overdub on hand.

Sure, no one will confuse the feel or sound of a modeler for one of your Dr. Z's, but isn't that kind of the point? It might mostly gather dust as an $80 paperweight, but for $80 I'd kind of want to have one on hand if I was recording other bands, just because you never know when all of the things that make a Pod "artificial" might just work for a particular part or song. Hell, for less than another SM57, why not?

Past a point, it almost becomes a question of being open minded, and again, I'm a guy who swears by his Mesa.
 
Richard Monroe said:
If you want to find the handsome Prince, you have to kiss a lot of frogs.-Richie
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:D

I don't like frogs...I like tube amps...I kiss mine (well, virtually kiss them) every time I turn one on and plug in, and I rarely have to "experiment" to get a good sound out of any of them. :)


kcearl said:
The one thing that generally comes out of these threads in other forums is someone will challenge the "purist" to pick out the real instrument/amp/whatever out of a bunch of wave files....and they generally cant

Id say the level of playing expertise has more influence on how "real" something sounds than anything else
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Adding a sampled piano or modeled amp *sound* to a mix is one thing...we've covered that...
..playing a real piano or a real guitar amp is a different thing and modelers don't come close for that.
And I agree with you…playing expertise…or even more, listening expertise…does figure into the equation.
Kinda that same way a noob will have no clue if some preamp sounds good/bad.


DrewPeterson7 said:
Sure, no one will confuse the feel or sound of a modeler for one of your Dr. Z's, but isn't that kind of the point? It might mostly gather dust as an $80 paperweight, but for $80 I'd kind of want to have one on hand if I was recording other bands, just because you never know when all of the things that make a Pod "artificial" might just work for a particular part or song. Hell, for less than another SM57, why not?

Past a point, it almost becomes a question of being open minded, and again, I'm a guy who swears by his Mesa.
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Well guys…yes…I’m talking about my own preferences, not as some absolute that must be adopted by everyone on the planet! :D

And just looking at my own needs and my own studio situation…I just don’t see where a modeler is going to really give me something I can’t get with my amps.
I mean…we each have tones we like and tones we don’t like…and I can get all the tones I like with my amps.
AFA someone else coming over and going “Awww fuck, all you have is amps in your studio, no modelers for me to dial through???” :(
If that day ever happens…I’ll drop the $80 on some cheap digital modeler! ;)
(And then laugh my ass off after the session is over.) :laughings:

Like a said…these are MY preferences…you guys use whatever works for you.
 
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If line 6 really turns the mic world upside down then all the sounds will be recorded upside down and we'll have to turn our monitors and speakers upside down otherwise everything will sound wrong!
 
miroslav said:
Like a said…these are MY preferences…you guys use whatever works for you.
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Like I said, I don't know if you just record yourself in your studio or if you do sessions, and again I'm personally a tube nut myself. It's just if you're taking paying clients, the more options the better, especially since you freely admit that one of the things you like about your amps is how they all sound and feel different. Presumably, none of them will sound and feel just like a Pod, you know?
 
DrewPeterson7 said:
Presumably, none of them will sound and feel just like a Pod, you know?
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No argument there! ;)

Honestly...does every studio have anything/everything anyone could ask for...?
A lot of it has to do with the type of music and clients you work with.
Granted...some studios are strictly about hiring out...they will do Rap to Emo to Country and not care, but many smaller, project-type studios have more focused sessions/interests.

Like...there ARE studios that still only use all analog gear...so it's not a open wish list AFA which gear to use for a session.
But here's the thing...I don't --DO NOT-- disagree that you might find some "sound" in a modeler that you would want to use or that it could sound OK.
However, guitar sounds for just about every type of music that's ever been played have already been done without modelers MANY times in the past...so like, I don't see a situation where an $80 modeler is really going to "save the day", especially when there are a half dozen or more really decent amps there for the choosing.
Like what guitar sound is it that only a modeler can give you (that actually still sounds like a guitar/amp)...???

YMMV....
 
miroslav said:
...
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Just out of interest... the conversation here seems to be focused on $80 Line6 pod things, but in reality these kind of products are at the very bottom end of the spectrum and probably ridiculed by people who are experienced with amp modelling. Have you ever played with or heard it done well? Like, decent amp simulation followed by convolution cab emulation using recorded impulses of real cabs?

Even if you just load up the front page and scroll down through the forums, I think this will show you that there's more to modelling than simply an $80 pod. Some people put as much effort into it as other people would put into maintaining their amps, selecting tubes, etc, and I have to say that (listening to some of the samples posted on there) the effort does certainly seem to pay off.

http://www.guitarampmodeling.com/
 
mattr said:
Just out of interest... the conversation here seems to be focused on $80 Line6 pod things, but in reality these kind of products are at the very bottom end of the spectrum and probably ridiculed by people who are experienced with amp modelling. Have you ever played with or heard it done well? Like, decent amp simulation followed by convolution cab emulation using recorded impulses of real cabs?
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I didn't bring up $80 modelers...someone else did.

And honestly..."done well" is a subjective term. :)
As I already stated...every digital amp sim/pod I've tried to date has not been able to hide its digital pedigree. There was always that homogenized digital flavor underneath the primary tone…like so much diet soda aftertaste…and that’s something one can only experience “in the room”…not in some sound clip mix.
AFA as how something sounds in a mix that was done who knows how by who knows who...it's really not relevant to me. I only care how something sounds/feels when I am playing it and when I am recording it. Comparing sound clips that someone else did has no real value for me...it proves nothing.
If someone else likes it...that's their choice.

And again...not doubting that some amp sims and cab emulations can be made to sound good...
...but again, why would I want to bother with it when I can make my real amps and cabs sound good (at least to me, you might hate it)...and that's really what counts.
 
Back on track...ing

This modeling thing is a trip..

I bought a Line 6 UX8 audio interface mainly because it had the same digital converters as some of the apogee crap and dumped my delta 1010.

The software was secondary but has become VERY important as I started playing with it... The stock mic preamps without me touching the settings moved me light years ahead in getting my vocals to sound pro..

I love this shit and have barely scratched the surface. It came with the platinum collection.... as I started running my keyboards through the various amps and setting I was blown away at what I can get out of this stuff.

This all said when Kenny told me about this mic thing last Saturday it made a lot more sense to me than it might have before I got to realize how powerful this stuff is..

new tools for a new generation.. Back when I was making music in a band in the late 70's and early 80's we would have given our eye teeth to have the recording tools available today...
We were lucky enough to be able to record during "after hours" in Wally Heider and Posha back then.. these were big buck studios and I'm able to get better quality and a ton more flexibility out of a $3000 home recording rig in my back room today.


I may be an old fart but I'll embrace this new stuff, use it and abuse it to the best of my feeble abilities till I fall over n croak.

To be honest I don't need this unit right now. I will let it get released watch the reviews..and if it is half as cool as it sounds like it could be ..if I have some extra dough and need to go on a GAS binge I'll pick it up and add it to my collection of useless shit.
 
TAE said:
They will start the revolution this July...
Ya heard it here first..
Revolutionary proprietary wireless digital band waves.
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Just the frequencies you do *not* want to use for professional wireless - overcrowded and very limited range.

However good the rest may be - no thank you for these frequencies.
 
TAE said:
Back on track...ing

This modeling thing is a trip..

I bought a Line 6 UX8 audio interface mainly because it had the same digital converters as some of the apogee crap and dumped my delta 1010.

The software was secondary but has become VERY important as I started playing with it... The stock mic preamps without me touching the settings moved me light years ahead in getting my vocals to sound pro..

I love this shit and have barely scratched the surface. It came with the platinum collection.... as I started running my keyboards through the various amps and setting I was blown away at what I can get out of this stuff.

This all said when Kenny told me about this mic thing last Saturday it made a lot more sense to me than it might have before I got to realize how powerful this stuff is..

new tools for a new generation.. Back when I was making music in a band in the late 70's and early 80's we would have given our eye teeth to have the recording tools available today...
We were lucky enough to be able to record during "after hours" in Wally Heider and Posha back then.. these were big buck studios and I'm able to get better quality and a ton more flexibility out of a $3000 home recording rig in my back room today.


I may be an old fart but I'll embrace this new stuff, use it and abuse it to the best of my feeble abilities till I fall over n croak.

To be honest I don't need this unit right now. I will let it get released watch the reviews..and if it is half as cool as it sounds like it could be ..if I have some extra dough and need to go on a GAS binge I'll pick it up and add it to my collection of useless shit.
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I only use the mic pre amps in pod farm and use the line6 interface as a dongle basically...excellent software..I wish they sold these in a package without the interface
 
I like amp modelers, but this mic is odd. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with how live sound purchasing typically runs. Your average rider will just say something like "4 wireless vocal mics", they usually don't care a whole lot if they are Shure or Sennheiser or whatever, so long as they aren't Nady. And if they did, then they wouldn't accept a Line 6 model of said wireless mic, regardless or how rational or irrational that position might be. So why would a pro sound company buy them?

I've never seen anybody complain about Beta 87 vs. Beta 58 capsules, etc. It's down to the sounddude to make them sound good in the venue, if they can't they are incompetent or the FOH or monitor system sucks eggs, and modelling can't really help that.

The talent that brings their own mics usually pick one mic they like and stick with it, I can't see anybody say hey I'd like a Shure sound on this song and then a Senn on the next. They aren't THAT different anyway, and if they were, they would totally screw the monitor EQ such that changing models could suddenly cause nasty feedback . . . of course they probably have a feedback killer algo in there too, eh?
 
If this is one of the mic models that will be available...I might reconsider. :)

stock-photo-sexy-female-singer-wearing-black-dress-holding-a-retro-microphone-isolated-on-white-37347136.jpg
 
Maybe you've been playing with your pod for too long...
...you can't tell male from female anymore! :laughings:
 
John Willett said:
Just the frequencies you do *not* want to use for professional wireless - overcrowded and very limited range.

However good the rest may be - no thank you for these frequencies.
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John. as I understand it, the deal is they are exclusive and proprietary channels to the unit, like in patented Only line 6 can use them impossible for there to be interference or crossover from any other wireless devices because they are not part of the proprietary digital algorithms that makes this new wireless system the schizzel dizzle.
 
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