The Secret To Great Recordings

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A great player will sound better than a mediocre player but that doesn't mean he will sound good in a bad environment. What happens if the room has a resonance of a low B and the music he is playing in G? What happens if every open D he plays buzzes? What happens if the G string is a few pennies off and/or the drums need tuning? It sounds like crap. A great player will fix all that first prior to make a recording. That's part of what makes him a great player. It's not just the audio engineer that considers the variables. A great palyer knows the value of his surrounding and the tools he works with.

I recorded an orchestra performing under extremely hot lights in San Antonio a few years ago. At the end of one selection, a set of orchestral chimes had a 2 measure solo. Sitting under the lights and getting hotter, they were incredibly sharp. I was almost breathless when I heard the orchestra enter with the chimes...they had immediately raised their pitch to match the chimes. Good musicianship can sometimes trump a bad environment.
 
A great player will sound better than a mediocre player but that doesn't mean he will sound good in a bad environment. What happens if the room has a resonance of a low B and the music he is playing in G? What happens if every open D he plays buzzes? What happens if the G string is a few pennies off and/or the drums need tuning? It sounds like crap. A great player will fix all that first prior to make a recording. That's part of what makes him a great player. It's not just the audio engineer that considers the variables. A great palyer knows the value of his surrounding and the tools he works with.

Another great post. Looks like there are several people thinking the way I do about this. I have found the opposite from the original poster. So many great songs I have heard over the years on these forums have not been done justice because of the poor rooms they were recorded in. Nothing more heartbreaking to me than to hear a great song and fine musicianship and then have a bunch of smeared low end garbage that won't allow you to hear what the fine song and musicianship is actually doing in an accurate way. Countless times I have heard this on these music forums when people post their stuff. I save many of these songs and listen to them because I love them, but I would really love to be able to hear them as they would sound having been recorded in a room that doesn't skew their great performance.
 
Another great post. Looks like there are several people thinking the way I do about this. I have found the opposite from the original poster. So many great songs I have heard over the years on these forums have not been done justice because of the poor rooms they were recorded in. Nothing more heartbreaking to me than to hear a great song and fine musicianship and then have a bunch of smeared low end garbage that won't allow you to hear what the fine song and musicianship is actually doing in an accurate way. Countless times I have heard this on these music forums when people post their stuff. I save many of these songs and listen to them because I love them, but I would really love to be able to hear them as they would sound having been recorded in a room that doesn't skew their great performance.

Are there no songs in suboptimal rooms that are good recordings?


Pay no attention to the "several" people who are thinking polar opposite of what you posit.
 
Lol @ this jeff guy backpedaling, flip-flopping, editing, revising, and generally floundering.
 
This has not been a very productive discussion. Both sides seem to be talking past each other.
 
"It's worth noting that the purpose of audio recording is to capture good performances, not to showcase a room. "

And this is where we disagree. The purpose of audio recording is to capture ANY sound source that one desires to capture. It is not to capture a performance. There are many many sounds that can and are captured in audio recordings that are not performances. Audio recordings are exactly that, audio recordings, and they are either captured with no room problems or they are not. If there are room problems, then it's not a good recording and that has nothing to do with the performance. You either have an accurate recording or you don't.

"Good recordings are also fairly relative to the subject."

disagree. A sound is a sound is a sound. You either record it with no room problems or you don't. It's either recorded accurately or it isn't and you won't hear it accurately if it wasn't.

"The room is important. There are recordings in sub optimal rooms that sound great. Ergo, the room is not the single most important element in a good recording. "

Not to me. Any recording that has room problems was not recorded well enough to let the listener hear the performance as good as it should be heard. So to me the room is the most important thing because you aren't getting a good recording that has low end smear and frequencies canceling each other out or room resonance that ruins certain notes. So no, bad rooms give bad recordings, and your statement is incorrect to me.

"nd even possibly more accurate (it will be). Easier + efficiency + accurate does not equal good in every instance if the performance is deemphasized"

Possibly more accurate? It's either accurate or it isn't. How would a performance be deemphasized? As i said, to me, bad rooms give bad recordings, and I have never heard a bad room prove me wrong. A bad room ruins the low end, causes smearing and simply screams BAD RECORDING ROOM from the high heavens. To me it's always been such a shame to hear so many hundreds of great songs brought down by a mass of conflicting frequencies and bad echoes and such. I heard it countless times since these forums have been in existence.




It's worth noting that the purpose of audio recording is to capture good performances, not to showcase a room. Good recordings are also fairly relative to the subject. To beat your Foley example into the dirt....A good room may be important to a Foley session. It may be the single most important thing to a good/accurate recording. For those of us that are actually recording musicians, the room is important. But it is not as important as good musicianship. If all you want to do is be accurate, then the moment the electrons start flowing, accuracy moves a few seats down in the bus. A good studio monitor is accurate. It's not, however, pleasing to listen to in a non critical environment. It's flat. Our ears are not.

The room is important. There are recordings in sub optimal rooms that sound great. Ergo, the room is not the single most important element in a good recording. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. A good room may make the recording session easier (it does), possibly more efficient (it can) and even possibly more accurate (it will be). Easier + efficiency + accurate does not equal good in every instance if the performance is deemphasized.
 
I was almost breathless when I heard the orchestra enter with the chimes...they had immediately raised their pitch to match the chimes. Good musicianship can sometimes trump a bad environment.
Nice. That shows the value of having good ears and the ability to adjust under pressure.
 
Are there no songs in suboptimal rooms that are good recordings?


Pay no attention to the "several" people who are thinking polar opposite of what you posit.

So there are good recordings with frequencies canceling each other out, low end smear that doesn't give the listener the opportunity to hear accurately? I can ask the question too. To me, nope, no good recording has low end smear, comb filtering and room resonance. Good recordings can have those things to you? Not to me.

Pay no attention to several whi disagree? I have been debating them this entire thread? How am i not paying them attention? Even this statement is just a little strange. why make needless, pointless statements like this?
 
So there are good recordings with frequencies canceling each other out, low end smear that doesn't give the listener the opportunity to hear accurately? I can ask the question too. To me, nope, no good recording has low end smear, comb filtering and room resonance. Good recordings can have those things to you? Not to me.

Pay no attention to several whi disagree? I have been debating them this entire thread? How am i not paying them attention? Even this statement is just a little strange. why make needless, pointless statements like this?

And not all bad rooms manifest the same 3 tired traits you've memorized off of Alan's site.

You do realize there are some excellent recordings that do not take place in rooms at all, right? How does the excellent room factor into this?

It doesn't. Hence my position that a great room is not the ultimate factor. You're also still hopelessly hung up on the accurate = good bandwagon. You'll either figure it out or you won't. I expect if you're gonna continue down this black/white path of absolutes, with no room whatsoever for grey, you'll dump all of your tube pre's and anything else that interferes with a great room. Absolutes are fun! You don't have think much with them.
 
1) Jeff has completely overlooked recording through direct boxes/direct input. Busted.
2) Picking the most important recording factor is like trying to pick the most important part of a car...it's impossible. Try to get your over-inflated head around that.
3) Get off here and actually go record something.
 
The proof is there, you're just too deep into your own ass to see it.

yeah yeah, step aside kid and let the intelligent folks debate. You aren't even in the same league as seen by your silly one-liners. The less you say the better chance you stand of appearing intelligent.
 
yeah yeah, step aside kid and let the intelligent folks debate. You aren't even in the same league as seen by your silly one-liners. The less you say the better chance you stand of appearing intelligent.

lol @ kid. :rolleyes:
 
"Jeff has completely overlooked recording through direct boxes/direct input. Busted.

Direct recorded guitar sux in my book, and direct recorded bass is not nearly as good to me as a 57 on a nice bass cab in a nice room. Busted? please.

"Picking the most important recording factor is like trying to pick the most important part of a car...it's impossible. Try to get your over-inflated head around that."

Over inflated? I think I have been very cordial today and have several people that see things my way. bad rooms don't give good recordings. the damage can be limited by good engineers, however. But a bad rooms giving bad recordings is simply the truth.

"Get off here and actually go record something"

Like you?
 
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