Latest from the Studio - Recording two snares

[PoeticIntensity]

This recording is from a group whose drummer used two snares for some of the songs. I wasn't quite sure how to compensate for it, so I just did my best.

This is kind of tricky, because the overheads are tuned to the primary snare and the kick (thanks for that hint, Greg). The 2nd snare was out to the left of the hats, so the overheads didn't really add much (and hopefully didn't take away too much) from the sound of the 2nd snare. For placement, I just placed it exactly where it was in the set - out to the left.

The group thought it sounded awesome.

I'm interested in any and all critiques, comments, praise, and / or anything else you think may be constructive.

Thanks for listening.

Fishing For The Sun

 

[Greg_L]

It's pretty good. The toms get lost a bunch though. The two snares work well, although the accent snare seems to sound better than the main snare for this song. Nice kick and bass relationship with all that slappin and poppin going on. Could maybe use a tiny hair more kick. And maybe pan the bass just a hint off-center if you have it straight up right now. Like no more than 5%. It helps with busy stuff like this. The timing is kind of messy but that aint your fault. Sounds like you did a good job capturing everything. Nice jangly guitars. Well done.

 

[squibble94]

Good song! I liked the production. This reminded me a lot of the band Mr. Bungle. Check them out. The 2 snares are fine. It was a bit odd hearing the accent snare in the left speaker though, so if you could pan that more towards the center, it would give it a more even sound. By the way, the overall drum sound is insane! I'd kill to get a sound like that. Can you give me a rundown of how you recorded them?

 

[WhiteStrat]

I'm with Greg. Well done indeed. Sounds great to me.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

It's pretty good. The toms get lost a bunch though. The two snares work well, although the accent snare seems to sound better than the main snare for this song. Nice kick and bass relationship with all that slappin and poppin going on. Could maybe use a tiny hair more kick. And maybe pan the bass just a hint off-center if you have it straight up right now. Like no more than 5%. It helps with busy stuff like this. The timing is kind of messy but that aint your fault. Sounds like you did a good job capturing everything. Nice jangly guitars. Well done.

Thanks, Greg. You hit on pretty much every nit I worked on while mixing. Dang, you've got good ears.

1. The toms get lost big-time. Ugh.. The dude's set had 7 cymbals all hovering around the toms, so it was difficult to find placement, and I was one mic short of being able to get them all. By the time I realized the 2 tom mics were actually picking up more snare than anything, the drummer was tired, had already finished his take, and everyone was satisfied with it. So.... Yeah.. The toms suffered big-time with this one. I've gotta get me another SM-57 or D-2. Lesson learned.

2. Alt snare should have been used as the primary snare because that sucker popped big-time. The main snare was more boxy-sounding, and deep.

3. I got lucky with kick / bass separation. The natural tones just seemed to be in totally different freqs, so I didn't have to do much there. (good idea with the slight panning of bass, and raising the kick. I'll do that for sure)

Thanks for listening, Greg. Your input is valuable to me.

 

[heatmiser]

Yup, this sounds nice. I too preferred the sound of the "accent" snare (based on your description of the two I think that is the one) over the darker one. The timing in places isn't so tight, but the mix certainly is. I thought the bass sounded great. I actually thought the toms sounded great when they popped out here and there, but I guess they could be featured more prominently. Nice work dude .

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Good song! I liked the production. This reminded me a lot of the band Mr. Bungle. Check them out. The 2 snares are fine. It was a bit odd hearing the accent snare in the left speaker though, so if you could pan that more towards the center, it would give it a more even sound. By the way, the overall drum sound is insane! I'd kill to get a sound like that. Can you give me a rundown of how you recorded them?

Thanks, squibble! The 2nd snare sounds as good as it does, due largely to the stereo placement itself. When drums are in phase, they pop. When they aren't, they suck. I tried putting it toward the center, and it just didn't sound as solid... The only way I think I could help that is to have the drummer physically move the 2nd snare closer to the center, and re-record his tracks.

As far as recording drums, I've been doing it for a long time (mostly incorrectly), and have learned a lot along the way. If you're serious about getting a good sound, I'd start by reading Greg L's guide on recording drums in the drum forum. It's a sticky. Go read it. Here's a run-down of my stuff:

Mics: Audix D-6 and i-5 (kick / snare), SM-57's for toms, and AKG D112 for floor-tom. AT4041's for overheads (**LOVE** these mics!)

Room is about 18x18x8, and it's treated with nothing but foam (everyone says it doesn't work, and ... quite honestly, I believe they're telling the truth. The problem is, I foamed my room up before I knew that, so it works pretty well. I'm saving up to by real treatment now, but WOW that stuff is expensive... Any pointers on how to get Auralex (or something equivalent) cheaper?)

Audio stream is as such: Mics -> Focusrite Octopre (8 channels) -> M-audio Delta 1010 -> computer (I use Linux / Ardour as my DAW) -> jamin (mastering program) -> final audio file (wav) -> Lame (Lame Ain't an Mp3 Encoder) for mp3 conversion.

I can't stress enough how important phasing is. The higher quality my mics get, and the better my room sounds, the more phasing seems to influence my drum "kit" sound. Out-of-phase = distant / tinny sounding drums. In-phase = drums that sound natural and pop.

And, of course, garbage in, garbage out. If your drums sound like crap, they'll record like crap. Tune them! This drummer had bought all new heads for the session, and had them properly tuned - and it showed.

Plugins: For this drum session, I used a couple of Para-EQ's and light compression on the snare / kick. I then run the whole kit through a slight reverb, and an additional compressor and that's it.

Thanks for asking, Squibble!

I'm with Greg. Well done indeed. Sounds great to me.

Right on. Thanks, WhiteStrat!

 

[Greg_L]

2. Alt snare should have been used as the primary snare because that sucker popped big-time. The main snare was more boxy-sounding, and deep.

.

Lol. I was gonna say that but figured it's pointless since the thing is already tracked. Really, for this kind of music that drummer should just use the accent snare as his main snare all the time. It's pointless to go back and forth when one obviously sounds much better than the other....unless they're just so different that the sounds are totally unique to eachother. Like having a 10 and a 14. His main snare isn't terrible, but the accent sounds better enough to make the main one sound meh.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Yup, this sounds nice. I too preferred the sound of the "accent" snare (based on your description of the two I think that is the one) over the darker one. The timing in places isn't so tight, but the mix certainly is. I thought the bass sounded great. I actually thought the toms sounded great when they popped out here and there, but I guess they could be featured more prominently. Nice work dude .

Thanks for listening, heatmiser! Yeah... heh.. The timing on this sucker was fairly atrocious before I started sliding things around. I tightened the timing as much as I could on the band's budget. There are still a few places that could use more tightening for sure. Oh, the wonders of the digital age. "Off-beat? No problem." Tedious as pulling cactus needles, but possible!

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Lol. I was gonna say that but figured it's pointless since the thing is already tracked. Really, for this kind of music that drummer should just use the accent snare as his main snare all the time. It's pointless to go back and forth when one obviously sounds much better than the other....unless they're just so different that the sounds are totally unique to eachother. Like having a 10 and a 14. His main snare isn't terrible, but the accent sounds better enough to make the main one sound meh.

Agreed. If I were to re-track this song, that is definitely what I would be telling him. Hopefully he'd see things our way.

 

[squibble94]

Thanks for responding! I've read Greg's guide, I think it will help a lot. Also, the drums sound great as is. You don't really NEED treatment (for the drum sound anyway) I don't really have any tips . Thanks again!

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Thanks for responding! I've read Greg's guide, I think it will help a lot. Also, the drums sound great as is. You don't really NEED treatment (for the drum sound anyway) I don't really have any tips . Thanks again!

No problem, Squibble. Also - for those of you who don't know where Greg's guide is, it's here. Also.... I appreciate the compliment on my drum sound, but honestly - if I had my room properly treated, I believe my drum sound would be seriously improved. Just fighting with the cost right now.

 

[joeym]

Wow....great recording, Jason, everything's crystal clear and balanced. Loved it! Pretty good band too.

Joey

 

[TripleM]

Not much to add to what's been said. The tom rolls get lost in part because they're so fast.

Heard a little pop at about 1:30. Like drum sticks hitting each other.

That's about it.

 

[JacobCampbell]

Not much to add to what's been said. The tom rolls get lost in part because they're so fast.

Heard a little pop at about 1:30. Like drum sticks hitting each other.

That's about it.

Yes, I hear that too.

Song good. Most I like bass, it sound very well.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Wow....great recording, Jason, everything's crystal clear and balanced. Loved it! Pretty good band too.

Joey

Thanks, Joey! Hopefully I'm getting better at this whole "mixing engineer" thing...

Not much to add to what's been said. The tom rolls get lost in part because they're so fast.

Heard a little pop at about 1:30. Like drum sticks hitting each other.

That's about it.

Thanks, TripleM. I tried and tried to hear a *pop* anywhere around 1:30, but I couldn't hear it.. I'll try again tonight with my monitors. Thanks for commenting!

Yes, I hear that too.

Song good. Most I like bass, it sound very well.

The bassist for this band is a nut. I love his groove... Thanks for commenting!