Scale Length - 24.75" VS 25.5"

  • Thread starter Thread starter miroslav
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miroslav said:
But that's the thing...24.75"...25.5"...I really wouldn't call them "arbitrary"...they certainly seem like specifically chosen numbers, which = math. :)

Like...if 24.75" was the first "arbitrary" length of string, why/how did someone then decide to add .75" to it to get 25.5"..?...or vice versa...?
Was it all just randomly chosen lengths?

That's really why I asked about the math...etc.
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Like I said, there's the legacy factor, like why railroad rail spacing is 4' 8-1/2". Why is it that? Because it's always been that. (The myth about it coming from Roman chariot wheel spacing has been widely debunked, BTW.) The reason is that there is no reason in particular.
 
miroslav said:
I just read that PRS wanted to have some of the Fender twang while also maintaining a bit of the Gibson feel...so they split the difference and went with 25" even. According to them, it's the best scale length of both. :)
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Many guitar makers have tried to build instruments that can do what a Strat does as well as what a LP does. They usually end up with something that is sort of like both but not as good as either. IMO, of course, and YMMV.
 
Yeah...I can see legacy playing into a standard...though when there are various numbers being used, then there really is no "legacy standard".

Like I said...when numbers are used, I initially assume there was/is some underlying math...though not always the case.

I've never played a PRS so I can't comment...but most people seem to rave about them.
 
ggunn said:
Like I said, there's the legacy factor, like why railroad rail spacing is 4' 8-1/2". Why is it that? Because it's always been that. (The myth about it coming from Roman chariot wheel spacing has been widely debunked, BTW.) The reason is that there is no reason in particular.
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Historically, railroad gauge (the "spacing") has been all over the map, depending on the sorts of loads carried and also the understanding of the designers. Narrow gauge (I couldn't find a measurement) is smaller than the standard you quoted, and other gauges up to 7'-1/4" have been used. The chronicle of railroad construction is full of the problems generated when two or more rail systems with differing gauges merged with each other, making it impossible for the machinery of one to run on the tracks of the other.
 
lpdeluxe said:
Historically, railroad gauge (the "spacing") has been all over the map, depending on the sorts of loads carried and also the understanding of the designers. Narrow gauge (I couldn't find a measurement) is smaller than the standard you quoted, and other gauges up to 7'-1/4" have been used. The chronicle of railroad construction is full of the problems generated when two or more rail systems with differing gauges merged with each other, making it impossible for the machinery of one to run on the tracks of the other.
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VHS. Betamax. Pick one. :D
 
miroslav said:
Yeah...I can see legacy playing into a standard...though when there are various numbers being used, then there really is no "legacy standard".

Like I said...when numbers are used, I initially assume there was/is some underlying math...though not always the case.
..................
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I can't overstate this enough but mathematics is not about numbers.

The moment I grasped that concept I was free to explore a whole universe of dependant relationships and Euclidean axioms.;)
 
muttley600 said:
I can't overstate this enough but mathematics is not about numbers.

The moment I grasped that concept I was free to explore a whole universe of dependant relationships and Euclidean axioms.;)
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I was only asking about guitar scale lenghts....not string theory. ;)
 
miroslav said:
I was only asking about guitar scale lenghts....not string theory. ;)
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Dude, research Euclid...;)

Whats more you pressed home the maths thing not me. If you really want to grasp the math behind vibrating strings though it is Pythagoras not Euclid you should turn to.:)
 
ggunn said:
VHS. Betamax. Pick one. :D
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Good one, but it's more like Betamax vs ADAT vs 8-track cartridge. The narrowest gauge I found was 914 mm, which works out to 3'. One envisions locomotives falling sideways off the track.

The oddest fact I uncovered was that the current standard was incorporated in the earliest railway that featured its own tracks and its own employee-staffed stations, using prearranged fueling stations...

...in GB, 1840.
 
muttley600 said:
Dude, research Euclid...;)

Whats more you pressed home the maths thing not me. If you really want to grasp the math behind vibrating strings though it is Pythagoras not Euclid you should turn to.:)
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You said "universe of dependant relationships"...I then jokingly mentioned the "string theory"...which tries to combine quantum mechanics and general relativity....which actually is about the math. :D

http://www.nuclecu.unam.mx/~alberto/physics/string.html
 
miroslav said:
You said "universe of dependant relationships"...I then jokingly mentioned the "string theory"...which tries to combine quantum mechanics and general relativity....which actually is about the math. :D

http://www.nuclecu.unam.mx/~alberto/physics/string.html
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This borders on the philosophical, but nothing in nature is really "all about the math". The math is only our attempts to describe, predict, and understand how natural forces in the universe behave. The ways they actually work and interact aren't dependent on math at all. They just are what they are. The math is just our system of constructed models and they are all approximations.
 
ggunn said:
The math is just our system of constructed models and they are all approximations.
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Right...and that's why it is about the math for us humans...
...unless you have a different way/language to define/describe it. ;)
 
miroslav said:
...but I was curious to hear from our luthier crew as to why one is chosen over the other...and also looking at it from a mathematical perspective and intonation perspective, is one scale length "better" than another...???
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OK to answer you original question once more and quite specifically...

No..

Thats about as clear cut as the question demands.
 
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Ahhhhh....mmmmm...well thanks for repeating it again! :D
I got it...the first time. ;)
(Didn't I already say that earlier?)

The subsequent discussion about "math" is an amusing segue and mostly philosophical and has nothing to do with guitar scale length...or did you miss the last couple of posts about the "universe" and "string theory". :)
 
miroslav said:
Ahhhhh....mmmmm...well thanks for repeating it again! :D
I got it...the first time. ;)
(Didn't I already say that earlier?)

The subsequent discussion about "math" is an amusing segue and mostly philosophical and has nothing to do with guitar scale length...or did you miss the last couple of posts about the "universe" and "string theory". :)
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I didn't miss them at all. I completely failed to see their relevance or how they were related but if you want some help understanding those subjects as well I can help being as how I was until recently a university physics lecturer for part of the academic years proceeding this one....
 
muttley600 said:
I didn't miss them at all. I completely failed to see their relevance or how they were related but if you want some help understanding those subjects as well I can help being as how I was until recently a university physics lecturer for part of the academic years proceeding this one....
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...self-appointed "expert." :rolleyes:


































:D :D :laughings: :laughings: :laughings: :D :D
 
Zaphod B said:
...self-appointed "expert." :rolleyes:


:D :D :laughings: :laughings: :laughings: :D :D
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I didn't appoint myself I took the trouble to learn shit when the opportunity arose. That bit aint hard to understand.

I volunteer to share out of the goodness of my heart and a kind embracing nature..;)
 
muttley600 said:
I didn't miss them at all. I completely failed to see their relevance or how they were related but if you want some help understanding those subjects as well I can help being as how I was until recently a university physics lecturer for part of the academic years proceeding this one....
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How about you put it in reverse and back up the bus 'cuz now you are taking this too seriously. :)

In one of your earlier comments you used the phrase "universe of dependant relationships"...which sounded very much like it came from a discussion about "string theory" as it applies to the cosmos (not guitar scale length)...
…so that's where the segue happened.

You are right…it has NO relevance to the discussion about guitar scale length...
…that's why I said it’s a segue. ;)
(Segues happen a lot on forum threads). :D
 
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