Monitor help!

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ColdToTheTouch

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Ive posted twice and plenty of people read the posts, and not one person replied. maybe cuz i didnt make much sense, and i babbled on and on. Im about to get some monitors.Im using Logitech computer speakers with a sub woofer.... Im unsure about getting passive or active monitors.. obviously, passive monitors would need a power amp.. could I use a home theater reciever to power the monitors? or am I better of with active monitors? and whats the best way to hook them up? I use a tascam dp02cf, and it has a digital output, and RCA outputs...someone please give me their opinion..
 
Here are some thoughts on buying monitors:

1) Audition several in your price range using some CDs of mixes that you are very familiar with and like the sound of (I usually use the 'Nick of Time' by Bonnie Raitt, and 'Summon the Heros' by John Williams).

2)take a sound pressure level meter to the audition so that you are listening to the same volume level with each set of speakers--louder can sound better and fool your ears. I like peaks in the area of 80 dB for mixing.

3) make your decision based on which set reveals the most detail and the least fatiguing to listen to for long periods of time.

4) active vs. passive--no opinion, see 1-3 above.

Hope this helps!
 
First question is what is your budget? Second, how do you plan on using them? Do you have a large room or do you want small nearfield monitors. Read the section on monitors in the tweekguide http://tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

and do some internet research. Plenty of articles out there. I don't think you want some anonymous guy on a forum making the decision for you?
 
My home studio is based in a small room, so I guess I need nearfield monitors..and my budget at the moment is I guess $150-$200 for a pair..I dont want to spend too much money at this time, seeing as how I dont really know much at all about monitors..but I will read up on that article you attached.. thanks buddy
 
Try going to a big internet retailer as well (ie - musicians friend, zzounds, american musical) Search in your price range and look at the reviews and rating on various models. Also when you find a pair you are interested in go and Google reviews for it. Look for technical reviews, there are many people out there that give a product bad reviews because of the brand name (Beringer especially). Keep in mind too that some of the people writing reviews on how the monitors "sounds" are also not in an acoustically treated room.
 
Active speakers are going to be less of a hassle for you.
Look for some used on ebay and save some $, the Yamaha series are not that bad.



:cool:
 
Active speakers are going to be less of a hassle for you.
Look for some used on ebay and save some $, the Yamaha series are not that bad.



:cool:

x 2 what he said.
I held out and scoped Craigslist on a daily basis til I found a local guy selling a pair of KRK Rokit 5 powered monitors and brand new stands for $200.00.
 
Critics opine.

I don't think you want some anonymous guy on a forum making the decision for you?
There's alot to be said for Ann Nonimity. She's an elusive girl, though. :)
Seriously though, the OP is canvassing opinion to give themself something to think about in the quest to get monitors. Smart thing to do. They will make up their own mind.
Active speakers are going to be less of a hassle for you.

While I don't know that for a certainty, I'd advise that you go with active monitors. As soon as I discovered what powered ones actually were, the other lot didn't stand a chance. Of course this is just one opinion and you did ask. Bonsoir !

Ps >> bit of a corpsy name eh ? Or have I been watching too much "Quincey" and "CSI Miami" ?
 
you guys have been a tremendous amount of help, and i appreciate it so much. Yes... ColdToTheTouch, is DEF a corpsy name.. guess that's what happens when you listen to Heavy Metal \m/
 
i am pulling my hair out trying to make this decision.. my problem is, where I live, in new bedford, mass... there arent any music shops around here with any used monitors, or any even in my price range..im on a short budget right now..i know im asking alot, but im going to post a link from musicians friend and ebay.. can someone tell me my best bet. I was gonna go with the samson 3a's, until i noticed in the description that u can use them for gaming, blah blah blah,, which means theyre built to sound good and I dont want that, right???
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?N=100001+8&Ntk=All&Ntt=powered+studio+monitors&Nty=1

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?LH_BIN=1&_nkw=powered%20studio%20monitors&_fln=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282&_udlo=&_udhi=175
 
You can use any monitor or speaker for gaming, the company just put that in the description to make the product more appealing. Try visiting www.americanmusical.com and check out what they have. I buy most of my stuff from them and they are always a pleasure to deal with.

P.S. Just a side note - Musicians Friend is owned by Guitar Center.
 
You can use any monitor or speaker for gaming, the company just put that in the description to make the product more appealing. Try visiting www.americanmusical.com and check out what they have. I buy most of my stuff from them and they are always a pleasure to deal with.

P.S. Just a side note - Musicians Friend is owned by Guitar Center.

That's "Guitar Satan" lets get the name right here.:D



:cool:
 
i am pulling my hair out trying to make this decision.. my problem is, where I live, in new bedford, mass... there arent any music shops around here with any used monitors, or any even in my price range..im on a short budget right now..i know im asking alot, but im going to post a link from musicians friend and ebay.. can someone tell me my best bet. I was gonna go with the samson 3a's, until i noticed in the description that u can use them for gaming, blah blah blah,, which means theyre built to sound good and I dont want that, right???
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?N=100001+8&Ntk=All&Ntt=powered+studio+monitors&Nty=1

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?LH_BIN=1&_nkw=powered%20studio%20monitors&_fln=1&_mPrRngCbx=1&_ssov=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282&_udlo=&_udhi=175

Broaden your search on craigs list to include NH VT ME CT RI NY all are with in a few hours drive From MA ---Be patient you may have to look for a few weeks.

The HS50m made by Yamaha aren't at all a bad monitor. Maybe you should just save up and get those.



:cool:
 
Hey folks, I've posted a long article in the Ableton Forum just yesterday on this much debated topic.
If you have the time to read it in full, some of you might find it useful.

Best
 
Hey folks, I've posted a long article in the Ableton Forum just yesterday on this much debated topic.
If you have the time to read it in full, some of you might find it useful.
It's an interesting article and worth having a read of. Bear in mind that it's got points that others will passionately disagree with. But in terms of helping you make up your mind, I'd say it was indispensable.


Be patient you may have to look for a few weeks.
I'd seen lots of threads and articles about monitors but it wasn't really something that I was gaga about, just part of the general fabric of finding out more about mixing and the like. Then in a fit of curiosity one day, I wondered what the difference was between active and passive monitors so I did a little research. Once I found out what the active ones were, I got alot more interested and the search was on. I spent a long time (well, a few weeks research for me is a long time !), checking them out and of course price was a factor but a multitude of opinions was invaluable.
 
Accidental double post. Mods please delete.

G.
 
Hey folks, I've posted a long article in the Ableton Forum just yesterday on this much debated topic.
If you have the time to read it in full, some of you might find it useful.

Best
Just read that Ableton forum post, and it's not a bad read. I could take issue with a few specifics in there but overall it's a decent post and a good piece to add to one's research.

But it really ignores the key issue when selecting monitors, IMHO; one man's trash is another man's treasure, one man's "flat" is another man's "hyped", a third man's "natural" is a fourth man's "midrangey", etc.

Active vs. passive, "studio monitor" vs. "entertainment speaker", nearfield vs. midfield, etc. are all just secondary details and close to irrelevant if one doesn't choose a loudspeaker that their own ears and tastes can both translate and listen to without excess fatigue. And there is only ONE way these can be determined, and that is to listen to them yourself first.

Many people rightly complain that they don't have a dealer showroom near them where they can compare sounds. And that's a fair complaint. Besides, frankly, many dealer showrooms can be a lousy place to compare them because the relative speaker placements and room design can play some tricks on you anyway.

Whether you get them from a local dealer or order them over the Internet, work only with a reputable dealer with a sales rep willing to work with you, and willing to understand from the get-go that you have to test them in your studio before you can make a final decision.

G.
 
i am pulling my hair out trying to make this decision.. my problem is, where I live, in new bedford, mass... there arent any music shops around here with any used monitors, or any even in my price range..im on a short budget right now

How long dose it take to get to Boston About 45 minutes to an hour from New Bedford ? The guitar satan there has a full line of all the monitors that are offered all hooked up ready to test, with a full line of used ones.
There is also a large GC in Danvers. But real close to you would be N. attleboro MA and Warwick RI.



:cool:
 
Just read that Ableton forum post, and it's not a bad read. I could take issue with a few specifics in there but overall it's a decent post and a good piece to add to one's research.

But it really ignores the key issue when selecting monitors, IMHO; one man's trash is another man's treasure, one man's "flat" is another man's "hyped", a third man's "natural" is a fourth man's "midrangey", etc.

Active vs. passive, "studio monitor" vs. "entertainment speaker", nearfield vs. midfield, etc. are all just secondary details and close to irrelevant if one doesn't choose a loudspeaker that their own ears and tastes can both translate and listen to without excess fatigue. And there is only ONE way these can be determined, and that is to listen to them yourself first.

Many people rightly complain that they don't have a dealer showroom near them where they can compare sounds. And that's a fair complaint. Besides, frankly, many dealer showrooms can be a lousy place to compare them because the relative speaker placements and room design can play some tricks on you anyway.

Whether you get them from a local dealer or order them over the Internet, work only with a reputable dealer with a sales rep willing to work with you, and willing to understand from the get-go that you have to test them in your studio before you can make a final decision.

G.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post!
The reason I've ignored all the details you mention, is because in my view they are not key issues when selecting monitors (on a budget).
What you are talking about is coloration or in other words, a certain degree of variation in a flat response to suit a personal taste. Attributes which should be left to full range audio reference speakers. Ideally every studio should have a pair of both flat response monitors AND audio reference speakers, and most high-end studios do, but when mixing, a flat response is not really a matter of personal taste, but accuracy in reproducing what you (and everybody else) will hear, so it is important to maintain a clear and objective view on the spectral image.
Being able to clearly identify a 'preference' is an indication that the degrees of variation are too great between different monitor speakers, a factor most common in low-end 'budget' monitors. As the quality increases (and prices exponentially) to reflect a more accurate, flat response, you will find these variations to be a lot less obvious and identifying your preference will be a much harder task.
Another downside that cheaper monitors suffer from, is a much greater degree of dispersion and distortions varying in different degrees at different volumes due to the elasticity (or lack thereof) and precision of the cones. Another aspect which will heavily influence personal taste and also much harder to control. Another reason why good quality comes at a cost, and it's much less debated.

Best
 
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Thank you for taking the time to read my post!
The reason I've ignored all the details you mention, is because in my view they are not key issues when selecting monitors.
Well, I am not here to start an argument - there are plenty of children on this board that excel at that - but I have to respectfully disagree and say that when it comes to actual end result, they are about the only issues worth discussing. All that rest of the stuff is happenstance details at worst and grist for for the gear slut mills of this world at best.

After being at this for a long time, starting out selling high-end audio gear from consumer speakers to studio reference monitors - long before the nearfield, BTW - and having many friends and acquaintances at the time who worked for a few different loudspeaker manufacturers and distributors, I have come to a different set of conclusions:
What you are talking about is coloration or in other words, a certain degree of variation in a flat response to suit a personal taste.
This was one of the points that I had contention with in the original post. It is incorrect to paint with a broad brush that loudspeakers are purposely designed for a specific type of coloration, and that this ethic varies between consumer loudspeakers and so-called studio monitors.

While there are some obvious exceptions, of course, most loudspeakers in both categories ("home" and "studio") are designed with the intention of having relatively extended and flat response, but only as allowed within three constraints: a) the intended retail price point of the product, b) the available pool of OEM components available in proper supply and price for the projected sales numbers, and c) that can be designed and built within the R&D time and budget allotted for development of the product.

This is equally true for "studio monitors" as it is for home speakers. The fact is that when looked at as a whole, "studio monitors" are not necessarily any flatter or any more extended range than home entertainment speakers. There is as much of a variation in coloration and response - and price, BTW - in so-called studio monitors as there are in consumer lines, and in fact many of them use many of the same OEM components and enclosure designs
when mixing, a flat response is not really a matter of personal taste, but accuracy in reproducing what you (and everybody else) will hear, so it is important to maintain a clear and objective view on the spectral image.
If only it were that back and white. But the real word with it's infinite shades of gray has shown me repeatedly that the only thing more varied in response than loudspeakers is the response of those ears listening to them. The chance of any two "golden ears" or studio engineers agreeing on just what speaker has a flatter response, or even whether a flat response is what they really want or need for their own mixing preferences is not much better than a completely random 50%.

I got out of sales a long, long time ago, when I decided I did not want to burn in the depths of hell when I died, because of all the lies one has to perpetrate to be in sales (;)), but one of the things I learned and had to lie about was the large number of "expert ears" that came in and made complete asses out of themselves by being completely wrong in what they thought they heard, and in how easily they could be manipulated and fooled. Christ, probably 6 out of 10 of them could be tricked into picking the most efficient speaker of the bunch because they could not even get their brains past the bias of loudness.

The best ears and the most honest of them would get their listening tests mostly right, but would admit to purposely picking a certain response bias because they simply could hear problems easier with it than they could with a flatter monitor and could mix better and faster with it than they could with the flatter one. The rest of them couldn't even agree as to which one actually had flatter response. As I said earlier, flat to one was hyped to another, and vice versa.

The funny thing is the only time they agreed was when they saw either the numbers or the nameplate first, in which case they all picked the ones they were "supposed to" pick based upon popular consensus in the community - irrespective of what their ears were telling them at the time.
Being able to clearly identify a 'preference' is an indication that the degrees of variation are too great between different monitor speakers, a factor most common in low-end 'budget' monitors. As the quality increases (and prices exponentially) to reflect a more accurate, flat response, you will find these variations to be a lot less obvious and identifying your preference will be a much harder task.
Well, first off, most folks that ask questions on this board can't afford Tannoy Ellipses, and have barely spent as much on their entire studio that a pair of those would cost. So talking about the big boys is kind of like debating Chateau Neufs with the thirsty.

But even if they were in the market for The Good Stuff, this idea that differences disappear is really not a lot truer with loudspeakers than it is with microphones. A Tannoy Ellipse doesn't sound like a Genlec 1032 any more than a U87 sounds like an RCA 44. All great speakers and mics for sure, but a transducer is a transducer; whether it's picking up sound or delivering sound, small changes in their personality make for big differences in their performance characteristics, all only amplified by the differences in response and preferences of the human element using them.

I've told the story before, but one of the best audio guys I have known did his best work on a pair of Advent 5012w home speakers topped by a pair of Advent 2002 bookshelves, a total of about $750 worth of consumer-grade stuff that he could mix to translate perfectly well to any environment, including studio control room playback. Put him on some JBL farfield arrays and he longed to get back to his Advents. The guy with the JBLs was in exactly the opposite position. Yet both could make equally high-quality mixes. Which one was right?

G.
 
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