loveofjazz
Sheep Defiler
You, sir, are a wishy washy purveyor of wivvle wavvle.
Uhh...what exactly is wivvle wavvle?
You, sir, are a wishy washy purveyor of wivvle wavvle.
Uhh...what exactly is wivvle wavvle?
loveofjazz
Sheep Defiler
But see...that's exactly what is wrong with this type of product.
It makes some people believe that it actually CAN do something for them that they can't/won't do on their own.
"I don't want to waste time on mixing --- toss in a mix preset = done."
"I'm not sure how to mix this song --- toss in a preset = done."
Oh I'm sure your mix will sound like "something" with one of those presets...
...but WHY oh WHY should/would a preset know how your mix should sound if you don't….???
Oh...and the reason this product exists is because someone saw that there was a growing crop of "recordists" that either don't have the time, desire or knowledge to mix (or don't want to take the time getting it)...
...so like any "too good to be true" product, they filled a need, but they filled it with something that really doesn't "mix" SHIT...it just applies a bunch of preset processing from a “black box”.
There is NO DECISION MAKING...the product HAS NO CLUE what your mix sounds like.
GET IT?
Is it always about shortcuts….?
I guess perspective dictates how you view it.
You make it seem as if anyone choosing to use this product is a complete slacker, void of any ability or desire to learn about how to make a recording sound good once you've completed recording the performance.
I could argue all day that I see it as a useful tool, especially when songwriting is the task at hand. You'll still be too busy trying to be "right"...whatever that is.
In my case, it simplifies songwriting. I haven't had the time to sit down and experiment with various uses of outboard gear and/or plug-ins. I won't take that opportunity until I've got more material. It seems somewhat foolish to tinker with what my gear will do if I don't have any material to record.
I guess if this takes away from the recording experience, maybe you should scrap that television remote control. Changing channels from the comfort of your couch is obviously taking away from the true television viewing experience (which includes getting up to change your channels).
...I guess this also means the automatic transmission is a shortcut. It takes away from manual shifting, one of the true joys of driving.
...We'll need to get rid of your microwave. This has no doubt been the downfall of authentic culinary creativity. If you didn't spend all afternoon creating that meal, you will never fully comprehend the effort involved.
...Using my computer to record is also too easy. I guess I've only earned the right to work with tape. After all, the ability to record so many tracks makes this song construction too easy. Any lunk head could do it, right?
...E-mail? No way. If I can't put a stamp on it, it can't be legit. Perfect text on a screen takes away from the anticipation of receiving a letter, enjoying someone's penmanship and responding in kind.
I do understand where you're coming from. You have valid points.
However, they're not the only points to be made. You do what you do for whatever reason. For some like myself, this has become an opportunity to focus more on the song and less on the mix. It's not that the mix is less important. It's just not the top priority for someone like myself while writing. For me, the overall sound becomes a priority when the song is refined enough and is ready to be recorded in a more complete fashion.
mshilarious
Banned
Atom Bomb
Wtf is a PRS
Some people.... I will agree with you.
Not all.
I think an astute person with a drive to want to do this stuff will soon start to hear from peers etc. that things just don't sound right, don't work well with other shit in the mix and he or she will sit back and say.... 'but thats what EZmix said to do????'
And start to tinker on his own and expand. . . . on his own.
An astute individual.
A lamer won't do this. His presets will be gospel and thats thats. The experts be damned. This decision is not the softwares to leave a final shitty mix.
for me... and spekaing soley for myself.
Id want it just to have something as a small foundation. And have a bit of quick insight into what the feel a standard sound would be. Where i go from there is up to me...
Not the software. Its not the softwares fault if im happy or unhappy with whatever results i get. It's my ears and whatever they decide.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
We are talking about two different things....you mainly about songwriting and me mainly about the mixing process.
Sure...if you just want to “get something down”, use whatever you like.
But when people get into a discussion about the more straightforward/in-use process of mixing...trying to sell the "value" of an auto-mix application falls apart (if you want to look at it with eyes and ears open).
I also am a songwriter and player...but when I get to the recording/mixing stages, I choose to put on a different hat. How one wears all those different hats is not so much about "right" or "wrong" (we are all free to choose how to walk a path)...it just is what it is.
If you don’t like mixing and you just want a simple solution that gives you “something” without a lot of effort…use what you feel works for you.
The only "issue" that comes up is when folks choose to wear a particular hat in some "lesser" way (for whatever reason - time, knowledge, interest - it matters not) and then take a position that their "shortcut" is doing that same job that countless other people (often the pros in the industry) have been and still are doing a totally different, tried-n-true way.
That indirectly attempts to negate those tried-n-true techniques and to replace them with some “That Was Easy” button method….and then yeah, the guys that ARE following the tried-n-true approach WILL come into the discussion rather defensively, and for good reason.
That most often happens on "home recording" type forums where some people like to live in denial and no matter how many veteran guys tell them that their approach won't really work… they just don't/won't see it.
Heck, (as an example) there are guys still recording with multitrack cassette formats asking what they need to do to get their product sounding “pro”…but when told they need to “up the ante”…some of them will balk.
Now...if you openly accept the fact that certain shortcuts will never yield the same results as a more concerted effort, but for various reasons you still wish to use those shortcuts anyway...that's fine…you’ll get what you pay for, as they say.
I'm not saying everyone MUST get DEEP into recording in order to be allowed to do it (or some such thing)...
…just keep it in perspective. You get out of it what you put into it.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
...pulling notes accidentally out of tune. Guess they needed to hire a producer to tell them that.
Why...do producers all carry tuners with them?
Also...maybe it is YOU simply caught up in a certain style perspective...so what you hear as "accidentally out of tune" is not the reality of the actual production...?
Of course, to debate the point further, you would have to provide actual examples instead of just innuendo.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
kcearl
I see deaf people
the drum nazi.....
X
XLR
______
Heck, that's gotta be it.Also...maybe it is YOU simply caught up in a certain style perspective...so what you hear as "accidentally out of tune" is not the reality of the actual production...?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I totally get what you are saying, and DO know that feeling of just wanting some sort of "foundation" from which to move forward.
The problem (though some will refuse to see it)...is that 1.) You are right, some folks will just never want to move forward and 2.) the part about what a "standard sound would be" gets kinda debatable...does it not?
That's that heart of the problem with auto-mix and auto-EQ plugs. Some programmer wrote an algorithm on what HE felt the "standard" should be...and a lot of newbies WILL just accept that as THE correct "sound" without feeling the need to find out on their own.
X
XLR
______
Kudos for the brevity of your post.
M
moresound
Loud Sun Studios
X
XLR
______
The recording gear industry is a lot like the cosmetics industry, I think. There's a quote by a cosmetics co exec... something like, "We don't sell makeup. We sell hope."every product sold in america promises shit they can't deliver on. no one is forcing anyone to use it.
X
XLR
______
Yer just still mad about the time I called you arrogant. Sorry about that.What's your excuse?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
No...your posts are getting longer...all bets are off now.
X
XLR
______
poopoo caca face
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I left this thread days ago because this forum is called "Mixing Techniques", not "How To Try To Avoid Learning Mixing Techniques". But I'm getting tired of seeing this at the top of of my thread list display. Not that I really expect to have any effect on that, because this is an argument thread, but maybe this will sate at least some of the non-zealots on either side...
There are some people here who are not interested in the production side of recording and got into it because they didn't realize it took the same amount of skill to do well as writing their song or playing their instrument(s) take. To quote an earlier post, "it was more than [they] bargained for".
They thought that pretty much all they had to do was hit the Big Red Button, maybe EQ just a little, and then slap their tracks on top of each other, and things would sound just like they do on the radio. When they find out - both on their own, and by coming here - that it's just not that simple, they either get pissed, or discouraged, or they continue to look for alternate solutions that promise to make recording production easier than it actually is.
Sometimes it's because either they are simply not that interested in getting that deep into the production side - they just want to make songs (which is fine) - or because they don't have the budget or have other logistical limits (which is also fine), or just don't have the ear for it (which is not so fine, but usually solvable). In fairness, most fall into the first two perfectly fine categories.
This software is designed to take the hard-earned money from folks in these categories by promising them exactly what they are hoping for, even though for most it ultimately will not be able to fully deliver.
Nevertheless, for those folks who so desperately want it, I say fine - go ahead and use that software. The answer is simple. If it works for you, you're happy and everybody is fine, and you have no reason to come to forums like this, because you have no need to actually learn how to do it yourself.
But if you use it and you want to know why you're unhappy with the results, ask the guys who took your money, not the rest of us who tried to talk you out of it.
G.
There are some people here who are not interested in the production side of recording and got into it because they didn't realize it took the same amount of skill to do well as writing their song or playing their instrument(s) take. To quote an earlier post, "it was more than [they] bargained for".
They thought that pretty much all they had to do was hit the Big Red Button, maybe EQ just a little, and then slap their tracks on top of each other, and things would sound just like they do on the radio. When they find out - both on their own, and by coming here - that it's just not that simple, they either get pissed, or discouraged, or they continue to look for alternate solutions that promise to make recording production easier than it actually is.
Sometimes it's because either they are simply not that interested in getting that deep into the production side - they just want to make songs (which is fine) - or because they don't have the budget or have other logistical limits (which is also fine), or just don't have the ear for it (which is not so fine, but usually solvable). In fairness, most fall into the first two perfectly fine categories.
This software is designed to take the hard-earned money from folks in these categories by promising them exactly what they are hoping for, even though for most it ultimately will not be able to fully deliver.
Nevertheless, for those folks who so desperately want it, I say fine - go ahead and use that software. The answer is simple. If it works for you, you're happy and everybody is fine, and you have no reason to come to forums like this, because you have no need to actually learn how to do it yourself.
But if you use it and you want to know why you're unhappy with the results, ask the guys who took your money, not the rest of us who tried to talk you out of it.
G.