computer upgrade

[Skyehook]

Greetings friends. I am planning to upgrade my PC laptop soon, it seems everything new is shipped with Windows 7, but I'm very happy with how things run on XP...which brings me to my 1st question..the new computer with be 64 bit with Win 7, how much will I be sacrificing to stay at 32bit? Ableton 8 is my main DAW, I also run a lot of NI and Spectrasonics software, and tons of freeware too. Just trying to get the most bang for my buck I guess but avoid the headaches and the always scary process of changing the OS...

I also recently spoke to a computer "tech", he mentioned that if I upgraded to Windows 7 Pro is comes with a special version of XP for running older XP specific programs. He did not really explain it very well so I'm still a little confused in this area...is this a dual boot type of system? Can anyone shed any more light on this from a production standpoint and stability perspective? Lastly, if I want to start DJ'ing with my laptop, will I need a 2nd soundcard for monitoring purposes?

And on the subject of soundcards, how important is it to get a decent one? I use an original M-Box so I am I even using the computer's built in soundcard for much? Besides the obvious factors such as processer speed, RAM, hard drive speed and space, what other options and capibilities should I make sure my new laptop comes with? Many thanks friends!

 

[Jim Lad]

Keep in mind that I'm only going by my own experiences.
The best bet is XP Pro and 32 bit.
I have built 2 PCs specifically for recording and neither are practical for a couple of reasons.
1) Old PCI cards do not fit in the new mother boards. (The voltage is different)
2) A lot of software is incompatible with 64 bit but all are fine with 32 bit.

A single processor with 2 gigs of RAM can keep up just fine as long as you have a good soundcard.

I'm using my old Compaq C and experiencing no problems.
Mind you, 10 midi tracks in Mixcraft will max me out and even freeze on me while the same tracks in any of the Steinberg DAWs will hum along quite nicely.
So again, ask around about what is the most efficient software.

 

[Skyehook]

Thanks Jim, but I'm really looking to upgrade here, not get bogged down with 10 midi tracks or so...I'm running a dual intel with 2gbs of RAM now, and I can play one thick pad on a synth like omnisphere and max out my cpu like nothing...hence needing the upgrade...who has experience running XP programs and synths in Windows 7 "XP mode"? Very curious to learn more about this...

 

[Jim Lad]

Thanks Jim, but I'm really looking to upgrade here, not get bogged down with 10 midi tracks or so...

Me neither.
That's why I was comparing one piece of software to another.
I've had lots of experience with dual boot systems of my own and found them to be unstable.
Have fun with your new build.

 

[altitude909]

Keep in mind that I'm only going by my own experiences.
The best bet is XP Pro and 32 bit.
I have built 2 PCs specifically for recording and neither are practical for a couple of reasons.
1) Old PCI cards do not fit in the new mother boards. (The voltage is different)
2) A lot of software is incompatible with 64 bit but all are fine with 32 bit.

A single processor with 2 gigs of RAM can keep up just fine as long as you have a good soundcard.

I'm using my old Compaq C and experiencing no problems.
Mind you, 10 midi tracks in Mixcraft will max me out and even freeze on me while the same tracks in any of the Steinberg DAWs will hum along quite nicely.
So again, ask around about what is the most efficient software.

Sorry to pick apart your post but there are some things here that are inaccurate.

1) Old PCI cards do not fit in the new mother boards. (The voltage is different)

Most (if not all) MBs have at least one legacy PCI slot onboard. If you are talking about the OLD 5V PCI stuff which was phased out 15 years ago, then it is probably time to get a new interface .

2) A lot of software is incompatible with 64 bit but all are fine with 32 bit.

Software is rarely and issue on 64bit. Windows 64 will run 32bit or 64bit software equally. I regularly run stuff (old sampler and synth editors) on W7 that was written for win98 with no issues at all. The thing with 64bit windows is that the drivers for ALL hardware must be 64bit and they have to be digitally signed. If you are trying to get old unsupported hardware to work, this may be a problem. Thankfully, W7 has the same driver structure as Vista64 so anything that has a 64 bit vista driver will work fine

 

[Thurgood]

Thank you for this thread. I may be in a world of pain coming this week, new PC (desktop) coming..... literally. I have done lots of digging on the net and talked to a few "techies" who have stated that older standard PCI card should be fine but they are not audioslaves like myself. Do you know of any known issues in applying a M-Audio Delta-44 on new PC's that have an allocation for one (old school) PCI slot?

I have been eyeballing a new soundcard/interface but what I have works and I am not in the game for $$ outlay for new card/interface etc. But if I was .... oh that issue is for another thread.

 

[Jim Lad]

Sorry to pick apart your post but there are some things here that are inaccurate.

Would have been nice if you'd followed that up with something other than bad guesses.
You are wrong on both counts.

 

[rayc]

Hey Altitude909,
Your denial of Jim's point #2 makes the point for him:
need 54 bit driver, need dig signature - well Vista began the disater for users of older software & hardware now, you've made it clear, 7 takes that further.

 

[strangedogs]

I'm running 2 different partitions with Win 7 64-bit on 1 and Win 7 32-bit on the other. I tend to stick with the 32-bit side as then ALL my plug-ins work without hassles - also I don't notice any radical improvements in 64-bit Sonar than 32-bit. Windows 7 works flawlessly for me and recording is a JOY once again. I'd say Windows 7 is XP+++++ - Vista was a dog but 7 FLYS!

 

[I Got Riffs]

... I can play one thick pad on a synth like omnisphere and max out my cpu like nothing...

This is the same reason I need an upgrade as well. I've never been able to get a good answer on whether an upgrade of the RAM, processor, soundcard, operating system or all of the above(or something else?) will be the quickest solution. I want to play VSTi's at a 12ms buffer and mix with real-time VST effects. All I ever hear is comments about how Vista sucks and 7 isn't much better. I'm happy with my sound and audio quality and my DAW. I just want to eliminate buffer underruns.

 

[TyphoidHippo]

Would have been nice if you'd followed that up with something other than bad guesses.
You are wrong on both counts.

What's he wrong about? A quick search on Newegg shows that of the 339 Intel motherboards they currently have - 320 of them have at least one PCI slot. He's definitely right there. Look for yourself.

As to the other point: I'm only aware of two ways that it's even possible to write a program that will run on a 32-bit Windows OS, but will not run in wow64 , which are to include 16-bit code, and to invoke some kind of nasty/undocumented/fake driver hackery (drivers must run natively in the OS). In my opinion, any software that makes fake drivers is likely up to no good, and anything using 15 year old 16-bit dlls (presumably compiled in Windows 95, 3.1, or MS-DOS )...seriously?

However - all that crap aside, I actually agree with the tone of your original post. @Skyehook: 32-bit XP is pretty much unbeatable for a hassle-free environment. Practically everything in the world that you can connect to a computer has a stable driver for 32-bit XP. You won't be sacrificing anything other than the possibility of using over 4 gigs of ram if you use a 32-bit OS, and make sure your new laptop has a firewire port (or some kind of port that a firewire card can be inserted in).

 

[Jim Lad]

320 of them have at least one PCI slot

Running at 5 volts?
The PCI slots now run at 3.3 volts and the gold bars have been realigned to prevent you from blowing your card. So they may even fit in the slot but they won't work.
To run the old cards, you need a universal board.

on the other.
A lot of the software I have will not run on 64 bit. Won't, can't and never will.
Newer versions will upgrade or die but the point is that when you switch over to 64 bit, be prepared to lose a lot of your old software and as in my case... Hardware.
I'd rather run my Echo Mona on an old board and keep all of my hard earned software, thanks.

 

[altitude909]

are you seriously giving advice based on whether or not something is compatible with 10 year old hardware for someone looking for a new system? It is not like A LAPTOP is going to have PCI slots anyway. And whats this software that "Won't, can't and never will" run on a 64bit system?

Running the software that he has on a 64bit system would have great benefits since each 32bit program can address a full 4 gigs of ram under W7 so his host (ableton) can use more ram as well as his samplers (spectrasonics, Kontakt)

 

[RWhite]

Everyone is going to have an opinion on this, but I say the bottom line on 32 bit vs 64 bit is whether or not your applications will NEED more than 4 gigs of RAM.

Unless the answer is a definite YES, then stick with 32 bit. I don't know of any major applications that don't run with 64 bit windows but a lot of hardware will not have 64 bit drivers.

 

[Jim Lad]

are you seriously giving advice based on whether or not something is compatible with 10 year old hardware for someone looking for a new system?

Well I was.... until you put it like that!

My PC side of the studio runs on an Echo Mona on a Compaq C.
I don't record on the PC any more but that's where I do all of my editing.
I had so many problems and went through so many computers that I was getting nothing done.
Eventually I built 2 Dual Processor 64 bit PCs only to find that they would not accept The Echo Mona Card or the Cubase VST 32 5.0 dongle.

One of the new boards is supposed to be 32 bit compatible but I can't make that work for me. So my attempts at loading XP Pro 32 bit failed.
So last night with your question ringing in my ears I took one of these out (P5KPL-CM) and decided to put it to the test.
There was a "USB Over Voltage Error" to be fixed but I got it running and tried to install the Cubase Dongle. The printer driver would not accept it so I went ahead and loaded Cubase LE 4. Mixcraft 4 is already on board.
I don't have another soundcard but I'm on Vista Ultimate so I know that I have Wave RT.
I loaded the "Crazy About MY Baby" demo on Mixcraft and hit play.
Sounded fine but I went into "Preferences" to switch to Wave Rt but to my surprise "ASIO" was an option. I set it up and it ran like a dream.
I have to increase the buffers in Mona to get it playing this well but the task manager on this PC was running between 40 & 70%. No real change when I forced single cpu.

Couldn't believe it.

I've tried loading some software. About 8 out of 10 applications work.

So let me change my opinion, right here and now.

If you are like me and have boxes of software and an older but superior interface, I wouldn't upgrade to 64 bit.

But...

If you are starting out with nothing, start with the best and that means the most up-to-date motherboard with the best available OS and DAWs.

I was wrong.