any good tutorial resources for mastering?

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gdgross1978

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Quick question - anyone know of any good mastering tutorials on the web?

Long backstory - Im VERY new at this, but I just "mixed" and "mastered" one of my bands songs, Forever, on my MacBook in logic. You can hear it at www.northern45.com.

I feel like I can get a decent sounding mix, but when I go to master it everything ends up MUCH quiter than I want. In fact I can see the waveform peaks corresponding to the kick and snare and they're huge, so I know that is limiting things. But in th mix, they're both already compressed to hell.

I guess this is the basic question: how do I my mix louder? I'm not fighting any pholisophocal volume wars, but I would like my mix to be comporable to what's out there already.

So, and advice or places I can read up on the matter?

Thanks!!!
 
Although "sheer volume" is fairly far down on the list of priorities during mastering, I might be able to offer a tiny little "hint" --

Most of the gear used in a typical mastering facility has absolutely obscene amounts of available headroom. And the converters are generally calibrated to take full advantage of that headroom at those levels (as opposed to the more "normal" tracking levels that typical converters are calibrated to take advantage of).
 
You may be recording your tracks too hot. Try tracking at about -18dbfs and see if that makes a difference.
 
What NYM said.......and what XLR said......

I think it was Massive many many moons ago who told somebody (probably on another forum) to record with averages between -20 and -10, or averaging around -18 or -14, something like that, and I read that and decided to try it because I was unhappy with my dynamic range. It was very hard to overcome that "record it as hot as I can get it" mentality, but I forced myself to do it on one song. The improvement was absolutely undeniable. I cant afford to send my stuff out for mastering, but even the simple home "mastering" I pretend to do is much, much easier and more productive and natural sounding when I track and mix everything below -10. Now I dont ever let any incoming signal peak out over -10. Much better results this way, and I dont have to "compress the hell out of" it to keep it in line.
 
Thanks guys.

I was always under the impression that you wanted to record things louder to get a better signal to noise ratio. Can someone explain why I want to record at a lower level, and how that plays into getting a better master?

And a stupid newbie technical question - how do I check the dBfs level when tracking? Does that mean 18dB below where I clip my preamp/converter? (I'm using either a firepod or a duet)

Thanks again!
 
"...record things louder to get a better signal to noise ratio."
That would be a translation of recording hot to TAPE to reduce tape noise - which fits into the dolby & other NR world view too. Not bad if carefully done when recording to TAPE.
Lesson ONE: Mastering is more than volume
Lesson TWO: Do a search in the BBS for the VOLUME WARS & read all about what mastering was, is & can become when perverted.
Lesson THREE: Mastering is about listening & hearing what is needed then doing it.
 
gdgross1978 said:
I was always under the impression that you wanted to record things louder to get a better signal to noise ratio. Can someone explain why I want to record at a lower level, and how that plays into getting a better master?
Click to expand...
Like rayc said, that S/N thing is a throwback to analog recording more than anything else. But when recording to 24-bit digital - which is the norm these days - it's not an issue.

Think of it this way: 24-bit digital recording actually gives you 138dB of digital "space" to work with between 0dBFS at the top and the 24th bit at the bottom (144dB if you actually include that 24th bit, but that bit can be "noisy".) However, the actual analog signal that you're pumping into the converter is typically going to have a maximum S/N of maybe 65 to 70dB if you're lucky. So there is *plenty* of room to fit that in on the digital side without having to squeeze everything up towards the top of the scale. Even if you had a signal with a full 70dB of range, you could record on the digital side with peaks as low as -60dBFS and still have 8dB to spare on the bottom without compromising the S/N of the overall signal.

So "room" is not an issue. Ideally you want to then think of three things; ensuring the best S/N on the analog side, giving yourself and your mastering guy enough headroom on the digital side to do their work, and not giving yourself any unnecessary extra work or steps while doing so. Without making this post repetetive or any longer, the short version answer to that would be to maximize S/N on the analog side by running hot but not too hot and then just letting the signal come through to the digital side "naturally" - i.e. not doing any extra boosting or cutting at the converter or in your DAW software when recording.

The exact numbers vary, and are arguable to a degree, but typically this menas that if you're recording with a digital RMS somewhere in the -18 dBFS range (+/- 3dB or so) on the digital side and keeping below clipping on the peaks, you're probably recording pretty sweet.

G.
 
That was a good read, thanks!

ok forgive my stupid questions again! i have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, and apparently just enough rope to hang myself with. :-)

So in a typical 24 bit preamp/ADC, there are actually 24 usable bits? As in, the preamp/system is quiet enough not to overwhelm the last few bits with its own noise? (My day gig is building data recorders, most of ours are 16 bit; but I did use a TI ADC recently and the effective noise-free bits was something between 20 and 22.)

The reason to record lower is to get a cleaner signal that's more in the linear range of the preamps and converters?

Third, and the practical question: I run a signal into a firepod and then into logic. How do I check whether the signal is at ~18dBFS or not? There are clip indicators on each channel of the firepod, but I assume 18dBFS is waaay below clipping.

Thanks again, and forgive me if I'm asking dumb questions!
 
gdgross1978 said:
Thanks again, and forgive me if I'm asking dumb questions!
Click to expand...
These are not dumb qustions; everybody (and I mean EVERYBODY! ;) ) has difficulty with this subject at one time or another; even the "pros" and the more experienced folks have pages-long debates and arguments about various aspects of this. So don't feel bad, first of all. Second of all...
gdgross1978 said:
The reason to record lower is to get a cleaner signal that's more in the linear range of the preamps and converters?
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, that's a good part of it. Regarding the ADC in your firepod, you're probably going to find more *potential* gain structure problems (only if not careful) from the analog input side than you will from the digital converter itself - unless of course you clip the converter by pushing the analog pre in there too hot. But you sound like you do have enough rope there to know to avoid that ;).

Think of the signal path as one integrated path that just so happens to have an analog side and a digital side, but it's still one path all the way through, from mic to hard drive. The ADCs in your firepod are the bridge between the two sides. So the question is, what signal level on the analog side bridges straight across to what signal level on the digital side? On the firepod, as with many (but not all) ADCs, the answer is that 0VU analog translates to -18dBFS on the digital side.

In other words if you were to send a 0VU signal analog into your ADCs and then into your DAW software, with no extra gain changes (including unity or zero gain/cut on the input faders of your DAW software), that 0VU signal would register on your DAW meters at -18dBFS on your computer.

With this in mind, as long as you have decent levels on your analog side going into the ADCs, you'll probably have decent digital levels coming out and into you hard drive without having to break much of a sweat. No real need to worry much about the lower bits in your ADC, because it's already calibrated in such a way whereas you'll be in the converter's "sweet range" as long as your analog signal isn't too quiet or too overdriven.

So as long as you have decent analog levels that don't clip the converter itself, which would take +18VU analog to happen, and the digital translation doesn't clip in the DAW, which shouldn't happen as long as you don't raise the gain and maybe even lower the gain if need be on the DAW input/record level, you should be cooking with gas, no problem. As far as sending a signal into the ADC that's too quiet? Well, in that case, you'll probably have problems with the analog noise floor long before yo do the digital one.

Does that make any sense? It's one of those subjects that once the lightbulb goes off over one's head, it's pretty easy to handle, but the lightbulb doesn't always come on right away. That's not just you, that's everyone (including me for the longest time ;) ) If you want to be confused in even more detail (;)), check out the website in my signature, hit the "Resources" button in the menu bar of that website, and check out the applet called "Metering and Gain Structure". At the very least it'll give you something to play with while you're waiting for your sig other to put her makeup on :D.

G.
 
gdgross1978 said:
Can someone explain why I want to record at a lower level, and how that plays into getting a better master?
Click to expand...

You already got 4 much better answers than I could ever give. But I couldn't help but think that, if you're going to ask that question, did you ask yourself this one:
Can someone explain why I want to record at a louder level, and how that plays into getting a better master?
Click to expand...
You don't have to answer...I'm half drunk and just trying to get all philosophical on your ass. :D
 
I guess I sort of understand...

1 - practically speaking, as long as I'm far away from clipping my firepod and have a decently loud enough input, I'm probably fine?

2 - I guess I still don't completely see why signal level matters much, as long as it's clean...I usually normalize my mix before I "master" anyway...I had another friend tell me I should basically run the individual channel fader several dB below 0 when mixing and I would get better results when mastering...anything to that?

Finally, if you don't mind, another practical example - the song "Forever" that I mentioned earlier. I like the way my mix sounds, but I can see on the waveform tha the kick and snare are huge in the final mix (they don't sound too huge to my ears, but I can see it when I bounce the track - their peaks stand waaay out from everything else.) if I reduce their volume in the mix, then I feel that they are too quiet, but I also have a feeling that their peaks are really limitng how loud the master will get.

Thanks again everyone, I sincerely appreciate your sharing of your own knowledge and experience.
 
gdgross1978 said:
1 - practically speaking, as long as I'm far away from clipping my firepod and have a decently loud enough input, I'm probably fine?
Click to expand...
Pretty much, yeah.
gdgross1978 said:
2 - I guess I still don't completely see why signal level matters much, as long as it's clean...I usually normalize my mix before I "master" anyway...I had another friend tell me I should basically run the individual channel fader several dB below 0 when mixing and I would get better results when mastering...anything to that?
Click to expand...
The conditions to question 1 pretty much make this question fairly academic. When you record with good levels through the converter, and if you mix wee with a fairly balanced overall gain going through, it all just kind of sorts itself out.

But there are two key ideas there; the first is recording at the converter levels (or lower) means not boosting the post-converter recording level; i.e. keeping the input levels on the DAW at unity gain or lower. We have already seen that pushing those levels and "using all the bits" is unnecessary, so why do it? All you're going to have to do is wind up turning things down again when mixing it with other tracks in order to keep your mix from clipping. There's no point in turning things up just to turn them down again.

Teh second is the idea of "balanced mixing levels". So many newbs like pushing things up and forget that they can often just as easily balance things out by turning other things down. This is true of faders and EQ sliders and input/output gain controls. When one tends to want to just push everything up, not only does one have the potential clipping problem when mixing - there is only so much headroom, after all - but also pushing volume gain up in mixing pushes up not only the wanted signal levels, but the unwanted noise levels to more audible levels.

Yes, you can just turn things down at the master fader, but again, there should not be a reason to *have to*. And besides, with some DAWs, turning down the master faders will not avoid clipping in the summing (mixing) engine because the faders are post-summing.

Best off just keeping "nominal" levels on the digital side while mixing the same way one would on the analog side, during recording, track mixing and summing. While digital is more forgiving as far as signal qualiy based upon signal level, keeping things at the same nominality straight through the whole signal path just helps ensure lowest overall distortion and noise level remains all the way through.

And it never hurts to leave plenty of headroom for the mastering guys to work with. Which means that peal normalizing your signal when your done is not only unnecessary, but will just be canceled out by the mastering guys anyway, because they'll probably want to turn it down before they do their work anyway. Which leads to...
gdgross1978 said:
Finally, if you don't mind, another practical example - the song "Forever" that I mentioned earlier. I like the way my mix sounds, but I can see on the waveform tha the kick and snare are huge in the final mix (they don't sound too huge to my ears, but I can see it when I bounce the track - their peaks stand waaay out from everything else.) if I reduce their volume in the mix, then I feel that they are too quiet, but I also have a feeling that their peaks are really limitng how loud the master will get.
Click to expand...
Which is how/why the mastering engineers earn their money. The trick is in learning how to increase the RMS (average) energy level of the rest of the mix without losing the punch you want from the drums. Hint: on one side, there's more to energy and perceived sound than just the height of peaks, and on the other, just cutting peak volume without making adjustments elsewhere or in other ways is sometimes too sapping.

If you like the sound of the mix, then leave it alone. If you absolutely need it louder, take it up in steps using small increments of compression, adjusting EQ as you go along to keep things sounding right. And don't be tempted to take it too far; sound quality is always more important than sound volume.

G.

Thanks again everyone, I sincerely appreciate your sharing of your own knowledge and experience.[/QUOTE]
 
first, thanks AGAIN for yor patience and detailed responses! I sincerely appreciate it.

SouthSIDE Glen said:
The trick is in learning how to increase the RMS (average) energy level of the rest of the mix without losing the punch you want from the drums. Hint: on one side, there's more to energy and perceived sound than just the height of peaks, and on the other, just cutting peak volume without making adjustments elsewhere or in other ways is sometimes too sapping.
Click to expand...

and there's the rub, I suppose. Is this just a balancing act between eq and compression? Any tricks of the trade I can go research?

And the corrollary - is there something I can do in the mix itself to help with this?
 
try this

gdgross1978 said:
Quick question - anyone know of any good mastering tutorials on the web?

Long backstory - Im VERY new at this, but I just "mixed" and "mastered" one of my bands songs, Forever, on my MacBook in logic. You can hear it at www.northern45.com.

I feel like I can get a decent sounding mix, but when I go to master it everything ends up MUCH quiter than I want. In fact I can see the waveform peaks corresponding to the kick and snare and they're huge, so I know that is limiting things. But in th mix, they're both already compressed to hell.

I guess this is the basic question: how do I my mix louder? I'm not fighting any pholisophocal volume wars, but I would like my mix to be comporable to what's out there already.

So, and advice or places I can read up on the matter?

Thanks!!!
Click to expand...

links not handy -- so google for "stem mastering"
you can find some good info on how to master at a couple of sites

have you compressed all your tracks before mixing?
that should keep the hot drums from pushing everything else down after mixing.

did you normalise everything to about -18dbFS before mixing so you have room to add the tracks and still not clip? and then
did you amplify the final to -1dBFS to max the loudness?
 
newcomputeruser said:
have you compressed all your tracks before mixing?...

did you normalise everything to about -18dbFS before mixing so you have room to add the tracks and still not clip?
Click to expand...
Why do you compress a track before mixing and what do you mean by normalize?
 
answer

NYMorningstar said:
Why do you compress a track before mixing and what do you mean by normalize?
Click to expand...

you said the drum peaks were holding down the level of the other instruments. if you compress them and amplify them first you can make them a lot louder in the mix. you could just lower the drum track but you might get more noise that way.

normalise - i use that to mean raise the level of each track to the same amount. and the final track as high as i can safely. then it is easier to mix them in the right proportions and avoid one being too loud.
 
NYMorningstar said:
Why do you compress a track before mixing and what do you mean by normalize?
Click to expand...
I'd also ask why he's narrowing in on stem mastering and not 2mix mastering.
gdgross1978 said:
and there's the rub, I suppose. Is this just a balancing act between eq and compression? Any tricks of the trade I can go research?

And the corrollary - is there something I can do in the mix itself to help with this?
Click to expand...
I don't have many links for mastering procedures outside of what Masteringhouse and Massive Master have on their sites, but to give my own answer to the rest of those questions:

I'm not sure I'd quite call it a balancing act between the two, but it's entirely possible that when you compress the mixdown, you'll expose some lower-level stuff that you don't necessarily want sticking out after you compress. This really depends on the quality of the tracking and mixing; the compression may expose some honkers like that or it may not. If not, you're just like downtown; if so, it's best to get rid of it as early in the multi-step process as you can.

The biggest trick IMHO is knowing when to stop, and that is all in the ears. When pushing apparent volume in mastering, It'll reach a point where you'll start trading sound quality for volume. At some point the mix will start sounding "pushed"; i.e. the loss of volume dynamics in the mix ill start revealing itself as sounding unnatural.

It's your own personal choice as to how much quality you wish to trade for volume, and as to whether you want that pushed sound or not. Personally I hate that pushed sound, but everybody has their own personal thresholds for that. But it takes ears to hear that stuff, combining that with personal preference, and what sounds "pushed" to one person does not to another.

Many people have not yet learned to hear past the bias of volume; i.e. that louder automatically sounds better. That's a psychoacoustic trick played on our ears that is often just not really true. When mastering, one needs to recognize that bias, and hear past it to the actual sound quality regardless of volume. That is, to recognize the difference between apparent sound quality based upon loudness and actual sound quality regardless of loudness.

My own personal recommendation would be that if you're not sure, it's better to err on the conservative side than to overdo it. An "under-pushed" master will still sound good to everybody, and can simply be turned up on playback. An "over-pushed" master will sound over-pushed to those who can hear those things and will never sound good to everybody, and cannot be corrected by turning down the playback volume.

G.
 
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