Terrible recording, mastered as best as i could...

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skumm bagg

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Hey guys, I posted a thread in the recording forum and moresound said I should post something in here...

here is the best recording that we got...it sounds like crap but thats why im here asking you guys for help!

http://soundcloud.com/archael/archael-track-4-rehearsal-04-08-10

here is a link to my other thread in the recording forum -

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=301959

PLEASE tell me what i need to do to get our recordings better, it would be MUCH appreciated!

P.S. I compressed the hell out of this, messed with the eq settings, the original file is much worse
 
It reminds me when i recorded my ex-band with a digital camera... Do you have any equipment? I can't get anything from that recording... so my suggestions are:

1) get some equipment, mic, recording interface and record everything separately. You can make a nice recording with only 1 mic (like an SM 57) for guitars and vocals, keeping a side the drums, they can be made with virtual instruments like BF2 or Superior, etc. Or, you may record only the drums in a studio and the other instruments at home saving a lot of money.

2) record in a studio and mix at home, saving again a lot of money.

Cheers
 
Normally the first thing I'd suggest is to turn down, but I get the feeling that would not fit too well with your style. Nonetheless, it would help, especially with the vocal feedback thing, and you may be making more volume than the Perception mic can take.

I'm not sure why, but your track is dominated by sounds in the range of 600Hz-1kHz, with a little peak around 2.5k. Below 600 is a big hole where there should be some sort of bass happening. Is there a high pass filter on the mic? If so, switch it off.

If I were you I'd take advantage of the other input on your interface (I think the Lambda can record two channels at a time) by capturing something different from the room mic, namely a line from the PA. I'd also rearrange the room. Set up the drums and amps like at a gig, lined up along one wall. Angle the amps up and inward. Then set up the singers facing the backline with their mics pointing away from the drums/amps. Place your room mic in the middle of the room to capture mostly the drums/amps. Take an output from the PA to capture the vocals.

Now, with the drummer playing, bring up one amp at a time to blend well with the drums. Listen from different places for a good sound and adjust the room mic to that spot. You may need to listen and adjust amp and mic placement a few times. Do a test recording or two (probably more like fifty) to hear how the instrument mix is and to check levels (anything between -18dB and -12dB peak is good).

Next, get your monitors balanced and get a feed from the PA to your Lambda. Do a couple of test passes to check levels on that input.

Hit record and let 'er rip. When done you'll have to balance the two tracks, but you have the option of putting different eq etc. on each before they're mixed. Throw a mastering limiter on the main mix bus and pump it up the the insane level that seems to be the current vogue. Post the results.
 
The track hasn't been mastered any more than the tracks were mixed.
You've thrown some effects over the whole thing in an effort to magically achieve a result that wasn't really there to be had.
Look, I've done the same sort of thing when I've aquired a crappy recording of a live performance by a fav band etc. There's not much that can be done other than noise removal, some MBcompression, EQing & limiting assuming any of these have an effect.
You do need to reconfigure your set up. Boulderguy has given you some clues to that.
If you want a usable recording you have to put some effort into it - most folk have pressed record either on a cassette player, Minidisc etc to get an idea of how a rehersal went BUT most desist after discovering how poor it can seem.
If you have a look on Ytube at videos by stratmonkey you'll hear some reasonable recordings of rehearsals - but those fellows have spent time & experimentation to achieve that result.
 
rayc said:
There's not much that can be done other than noise removal, some MBcompression, EQing & limiting assuming any of these have an effect.
Click to expand...

Standard disclaimer (don't take offense, I'm trying to help, not offend, - you asked for it, etc etc :D)

I'd take it a step further and just tell you straight up, skumm bag: Rule #1 for practically everybody who's been doing this for a while is that when you record something that sounds bad - delete it and re-record it. That recording sounds terrible, and you've stated that you know it (which is good that you can tell that!) - so.... the next step is: Delete that crap and start over! :D Compression and EQ that you mentioned are only going to be a frustrating waste of time. There is no magic bullet that you can shoot that track with. Nobody can make a mono white-noise sample sound like you want your heavy metal music to sound. I guarantee it.

As far as advice - I echo what others have said - if you absolutely can not multi-track this recording - you're gonna have to turn it all down. Also - what do you have to work with and what is the reasoning behind recording this way (by "this way" I mean wrapping a microphone in 5 T-Shirts and putting it in a small garage with a heavy metal band)? In fact, just reading that italicized part again makes me wonder if skumm bag is an alias...

edit: I don't think anybody's asked, but the situation kinda calls for it: Do you know that you can record your parts one at a time, and then put them together after the fact? Your drummer's using triggers, your singer's using vocal processors - you're obviously not opposed to using technology to your advantage - so why ignore your computer? Not only will that let you focus on getting a good-sounding, solid recording of each part - but you'll actually have tracks to mix - and in stereo, no less, woot! I'll go ahead and take the purist-scolding and be the first to say that that's probably your only serious option that's really going to work, given such a loud band in a small garage...
 
Last edited:
okay something i didnt mention before that i should have...

We only meet once a week, so rehearsal time doubles as recording time. I'm not looking to make a pro sounding recording just yet, just something to put together a demo with.

EDIT:

recording equipment that we have -

lexicon lambda interface (2 mic inputs, 2 line ins)

shure sm57 mic

akg perception 420 mic

cubase le4/sony acid pro 7
 
TyphoidHippo said:
Standard disclaimer (don't take offense, I'm trying to help, not offend, - you asked for it, etc etc :D)

I'd take it a step further and just tell you straight up, skumm bag: Rule #1 for practically everybody who's been doing this for a while is that when you record something that sounds bad - delete it and re-record it. That recording sounds terrible, and you've stated that you know it (which is good that you can tell that!) - so.... the next step is: Delete that crap and start over! :D Compression and EQ that you mentioned are only going to be a frustrating waste of time. There is no magic bullet that you can shoot that track with. Nobody can make a mono white-noise sample sound like you want your heavy metal music to sound. I guarantee it.

As far as advice - I echo what others have said - if you absolutely can not multi-track this recording - you're gonna have to turn it all down. Also - what do you have to work with and what is the reasoning behind recording this way (by "this way" I mean wrapping a microphone in 5 T-Shirts and putting it in a small garage with a heavy metal band)? In fact, just reading that italicized part again makes me wonder if skumm bag is an alias...

edit: I don't think anybody's asked, but the situation kinda calls for it: Do you know that you can record your parts one at a time, and then put them together after the fact? Your drummer's using triggers, your singer's using vocal processors - you're obviously not opposed to using technology to your advantage - so why ignore your computer? Not only will that let you focus on getting a good-sounding, solid recording of each part - but you'll actually have tracks to mix - and in stereo, no less, woot! I'll go ahead and take the purist-scolding and be the first to say that that's probably your only serious option that's really going to work, given such a loud band in a small garage...
Click to expand...

the reason its so loud is so that the drummer can hear us over his kit. im looking to make a decent recording from our rehearsal sessions, since we only get one day a week to practice
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Normally the first thing I'd suggest is to turn down, but I get the feeling that would not fit too well with your style. Nonetheless, it would help, especially with the vocal feedback thing, and you may be making more volume than the Perception mic can take.

I'm not sure why, but your track is dominated by sounds in the range of 600Hz-1kHz, with a little peak around 2.5k. Below 600 is a big hole where there should be some sort of bass happening. Is there a high pass filter on the mic? If so, switch it off.

If I were you I'd take advantage of the other input on your interface (I think the Lambda can record two channels at a time) by capturing something different from the room mic, namely a line from the PA. I'd also rearrange the room. Set up the drums and amps like at a gig, lined up along one wall. Angle the amps up and inward. Then set up the singers facing the backline with their mics pointing away from the drums/amps. Place your room mic in the middle of the room to capture mostly the drums/amps. Take an output from the PA to capture the vocals.

Now, with the drummer playing, bring up one amp at a time to blend well with the drums. Listen from different places for a good sound and adjust the room mic to that spot. You may need to listen and adjust amp and mic placement a few times. Do a test recording or two (probably more like fifty) to hear how the instrument mix is and to check levels (anything between -18dB and -12dB peak is good).

Next, get your monitors balanced and get a feed from the PA to your Lambda. Do a couple of test passes to check levels on that input.

Hit record and let 'er rip. When done you'll have to balance the two tracks, but you have the option of putting different eq etc. on each before they're mixed. Throw a mastering limiter on the main mix bus and pump it up the the insane level that seems to be the current vogue. Post the results.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot for this post, very helpful! Very much appreciated.

The vocals come out of the same PA that the triggered kick comes through, could this be a problem? do we need separate PAs?

The multi effects unit the vocals come out of has a switch on the back for like +4 db or something, and it is on. should i turn it off? if i do, its not as loud.
 
skumm bagg said:
The vocals come out of the same PA that the triggered kick comes through, could this be a problem? do we need separate PAs?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, but you may or may not want to get the triggered drums more than one way, through a room mic and from the PA feed. The results will tell you what works. Depending on your mixing gear there can be various ways to get something different to the recording than to your monitors.

skumm bagg said:
The multi effects unit the vocals come out of has a switch on the back for like +4 db or something, and it is on. should i turn it off? if i do, its not as loud.
Click to expand...

It depends on what unit's output is connected to. +4dB indicates professional line level, -10dB is consumer line level.

General suggestions:

If things sound bad change something. In the early days of recording they only had one mic to record whatever size group. Mixing a band literally meant telling musicians to switch chairs until the balance was right in mic.

Divide and conquer. For you that means either deciding how to route your sounds into two tracks of the live recording, or learning how to layer one instrument at a time.
 
skumm bagg said:
I'm not looking to make a pro sounding recording just yet,
Click to expand...

Thank god for that, because this is seriously the worst sounding recording I've ever heard on this board, and maybe in my life. I'm not trying to be a prick or be mean. But, honestly, this is beyond horrible. All of a sudden, I have an urge to go listen to some Jordan. :eek:
 
The floor tom needs to be tuned to a lower pitch, but other than that, this tune is radio ready.
 
ha! Dude this sounds like such old school black metal. Its kinda of an homage to the old dudes. Sounds like Old Dark Throne and almost tone for tone with that Ulver record they recorded in the woods.

I honestly like it, considering your keeping with tradition of the 'purists' of the genre this would be worth realease on casette on a limited run to sell at your shows or off your website. There are people that would apprciate it.

Beleive me.

But as far as getting a good 'modern' sound you got a long road ahead of you.


Both threads have allready made alot of the same suggestions i was goin to say i'll save it.

I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet or not but if your going to record in the same garage you jam in, you may as well brace yourself casue you have to change your whole line of thinking.

Theres no way around it.

What you hear in that room with your ears and what your 'mics' are going to hear are two totally different things.

And one thing that helped us immensely back in the day recording in the garage was ear plugs, ear muffs and all that stuff. anything that would salvage our ears and not tire them out so we could listen to the playbacks with minimal tinnitus.


Good luck.


Great tune too man. I like that old Black Metal sound alot.

I'll keep checking back.
 
You are completely correct terrible, terrible recording.
This might even sound good if it had been recorded correctly.
You need to close mic the guitars, and record them (with everyone playing). then let the drummer listen to the guitars you recorded (on headphones), and record him.
then go back and record the vocals while you listen to the rest of the mix (on headphones).
Trying to get this all done with two mics live is a fools errand.
It might be possible to record it live, in a good sized studio with isolation booths for all the instruments. For the equipment you have and the space to record in, is futile to attempt.
Good luck, look forward to hearing this when it has all been tracked separately.
cheers
C>
 
There are many situations with many types of music where it would be possible, if not advisable, to get a good recording with a well thought-out stereo mic setup... but not for this :p

That's not to say its possible if... you very carefully positioned everyone... had a reasonable room to record in... kept the levels very controlled.. made sure everyone played carefully and maintained the correct balance... set up the mics very carefully... and you didn't expect too much. But that wouldn't be a very fun rehearsal would it?

I'd say either scrap the idea of live recordings for now and get some constructed, polished recordings laid down track by track (perfectly possible with a two channel interface, though you may be restricted to using programmed drums) or, as I said in the other thread, do yourself a favour and get yourself an 8 channel interface.

Just as an example of what you can do very easily once you've got the input capabilities, the video below is from last year when a friend bribed me into attending one of their rehearsals with my laptop and recording rack. Its a fairly crap song and they'd hate to know I was posting this old stuff around, but its much closer to the genre that you're doing than their newer stuff :)

[video=youtube;<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/K94_M41aED8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/K94_M41aED8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>]video[/video]

In the scheme of things, that took minimal effort to capture their whole rehearsal... 10 minutes of mic setup... 10 minutes transferring files to computer... 10 minutes doing a very rough mix (kick is triggered, snare is real, bass was DI, guitars were mic'd)... smash it through a limiter... sync it with video from phone... render and upload. In hindsight the mix was fairly shoddy (compressed those overheads a bit too much) but it was done very quickly.

So about 45 minutes of work from me, and a beer and a big mac in return :D

Lesson? Get an interface. Get an interface. Get an interface.

/thread
 
Atom Bomb said:
Also check your pm's .....
Click to expand...

hey man, i tried to send you a PM a few times with no success, i dont know why. anyway, the room is about 15 x 30 feet, and as far as equipment goes:

lexicon lambda interface (2 mic inputs, 2 line ins)

shure sm57 mic

akg perception 420 mic (what we used for this recording)

we ordered a feedback destroyer as well

my AIM is decrepitude ii or my gmail is alsuezi@gmail.com if thats easier for you to get back to me with

appreciate your comments bro, im glad someone is into bm around here!
 
Since you have the recording capability, why don't you try to multi-track? Now, you'll have to start with guitar instead of drums, but this way you can edit each track individually. Then when your drummer goes to record he can just use headphones. Also, I'd not record it so hot, I don't think its ever not clipping. Anyway, keep experimenting, and don't give up. As long as you can hear everything, the main thing for a demo is the quality of performance. Keep us posted!
-nocarsgo
 
skumm bagg said:
hey man, i tried to send you a PM a few times with no success, i dont know why. anyway, the room is about 15 x 30 feet, and as far as equipment goes:

lexicon lambda interface (2 mic inputs, 2 line ins)

shure sm57 mic

akg perception 420 mic (what we used for this recording)

we ordered a feedback destroyer as well

my AIM is decrepitude ii or my gmail is alsuezi@gmail.com if thats easier for you to get back to me with

appreciate your comments bro, im glad someone is into bm around here!
Click to expand...


got it. i'll be back at you shortly.
 
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