Money on monitors or interface?

  • Thread starter Thread starter A.D.Ryan
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Haha. Because we use the a third of the room to store clothes I call it a wardrobe. Silly isn`t it:)? Anyway, enjoy your drink and thank you for helping me!
 
Hey A.D Ryan, as far as microphones, if you are only recording vocals, Id say get at least 1 dynamic and 1 condenser. Condensers tend to be the norm for vocals, yet a dynamic might be good for some situations, but Youll want to have at least one of each, and it seems that a 1200 budget would allow for a good interface, decent monitors, and a couple of mics.
 
Thank you Nelson! I think I`ll there. You reckon I should keep my SHure 58 or try to sell it? I heard that they`re good for concerts but they`re not studio microphones.
 
I would do neither. I would save my money and buy something I'd keep forever.
 
Thank you Nelson! I think I`ll there. You reckon I should keep my SHure 58 or try to sell it? I heard that they`re good for concerts but they`re not studio microphones.


I say keep it, 58 dont go for much money used, yet they are very useful to have around a studio. And you wanted to have a dynamic for vocals anyway, so I think thatll be alright for now. Great dynamics for vocals like the sm7b and RE20 are in the 200-350 range so its definitely a BIG leap in price from a 58. Until you are ready to spend that kinda money on one of those I think the 58 and a good inexpensive large diaphragm condenser will just fine.

Then again, Im no expert in mics so maybe other members could chip in with other recommendations.
 
Cheers. I`ll buy a condenser and see what happens. I`m probably gonna go shopping in an hour. Check out the Yamaha shops and maybe even buy some stuff.
 
Cheers! I bought everything today! I hope it works! I`ll keep you updated:)
 
Dude, I'd spend the whole wad on the interface and steal my wife's speakers unti I could pop for monitors. Actualy, I think I just gave $400 for a presonus fire studio. Surely you could find some half-assed monitors for $200.

I promised I wouldn't do this. :o

I have a bran new Tascam 2488 Mkll for sale. Give me a holler if you're interested. :cool:
 
Thanks mate. I decided to keep it. I also bought an amplifier to go with it. It should be fun.
 
You need to be able to hear accurately what you are mixing.
And more importantly than that, you need to hear accurately when you are recording in the first place. You should not be listening to anything but isolated (as much as possible in our home rec situations) monitors before you hit the record button.

Room treatment while not at all sexy, covered in flashing lights and VU meters will by far have the most significant impact at the outset.

A more expensive interface will normally get you more inputs/outputs and a Firewire connection instead of a USB connection (Unless you are talking about some really serious money where better converters and pres will start to factor in to the equation) which if you are doing a track or two at a time recording in a hom studio won't really make any significant quality difference at all

He speaks the truth. Do you want to show off toys to your friends, or do you want to make recordings? Room treatment and monitors are no fun at all (unless you love sitting and listening to recorded music :p ). They don't impress outsiders, they are mercilessly expensive and always will be, and they don't let you "do" anything you couldn't do before so there is no excitement of owning something new. But even though you could already play music in a room, you could not do it this well. You need to hear this well to record. It's like painting without wearing glasses. You just won't get where you need to be if you don't have an accurate picture of what you're doing.

I respectfully disagree with bristol. Dont get me wrong, room treatment is important, but in my experience, it should not be overemphasized when on a tight budget.

In my experience, when there is a strict budget, it becomes a matter of what is essential vs. what you would ideally have.
Need:
Great musicians
Interesting song
Appropriate source sounds
Ability to hear exactly what you're doing
Some sort of way to record the whole thing



Would be nice to have:
A better, more accurate way to record the whole thing

Bottom line, an interface is top priority for any beginner home studio. Think about it like this, If you could only have one of the three (interface, monitors, or treatment) which would you choose?
This is 100% backwards.

How will a beginner create the correct sounds and put the mics in the correct place if he can't hear what is wrong? How will a beginner even know anything is wrong? This is why people think their problems are mix/master related. They never learned to record because they disregard monitors and room treatment.

And by that token, what good is a better interface and better mics if the sound coming down the mic cable is no good? Once you learn what a good sound is, and once you learn how to position things to catch it, then mic/interface upgrades make sense. But why spend money to make a better recreation of a bad sound?

That's fair enough I'm just one opinion.

The reason for my opinion is generally on these getting started threads we are all gung ho for the shiny new gear but then in a few weeks the proud owner of all this new gear then comes back to the forums with a post about how they have all this gear with the word "Pro" in the product name but their mixes sound like sh!t and don't translate to other systems, waht's up with that and what are the secret tricks the pros aren't telling us

If I were starting over I would at the very least build or buy 4 bass traps and take care of the room corners before I even took the interface out of the box
Listen to this man.
 
This is 100% backwards.

How will a beginner create the correct sounds and put the mics in the correct place if he can't hear what is wrong? How will a beginner even know anything is wrong? This is why people think their problems are mix/master related. They never learned to record because they disregard monitors and room treatment.

And by that token, what good is a better interface and better mics if the sound coming down the mic cable is no good? Once you learn what a good sound is, and once you learn how to position things to catch it, then mic/interface upgrades make sense. But why spend money to make a better recreation of a bad sound?


Listen to this man.

But for a beginner, things like what a good sound is or isn't becomes much of a muchness. If you have a 'bad sound' {your words} but it sounds good to you, it's going to take some time before you get to the point where you change your mind about what is and what isn't a good sound.
I made an observation in another thread that the standards and bar set in home recording seems really high ! In a way that's a good thing but sometimes, I wonder if we're not taking into account progression. To put it bluntly, someone new, in my opinion, needs to know that there is a learning curve and that it takes time and sweat to progress up this curve if you want to. Things like room treatment make a difference to someone whose ears are sufficiently trained {and by that, I don't mean an expert}, not someone who doesn't have a clue because how will they know what effects what ? If after a few months said newbie is back saying "I'm having this problem and that problem", then I'd say that is sometimes a good thing. It represents progression.
Incidentally, Chibi and Bristol, I'm not knocking what you've said. I think it's been really valuable and it hopefully will get people thinking along lines they otherwise wouldn't have. But for the new home recorder who wants to record and enjoy what they do and who isn't necesarilly at this point looking for nirvana, wouldn't they need to just hit basics first ? Part of the reason home recording has really taken off, whether rightly or wrongly, is because people can make music at home without all the (as they see it) drama, heavy weather and construction skills that it always seemed was necesary. Get a machine, plug in and go ! Then as one gets further in.........
Had this been in a section other than the newbie one, I wouldn't really have said any of that. I assume that if a question is in the newbie bit, that the poster is new at all this.
 
But for a beginner, things like what a good sound is or isn't becomes much of a muchness. If you have a 'bad sound' {your words} but it sounds good to you, it's going to take some time before you get to the point where you change your mind about what is and what isn't a good sound.
You said it right there. "It sounds good to you". You base what "sounds good to you" on what you are hearing, obviously. How can a person change their opinion on what sounds good if they can't hear accurately? By the time it gets to the car stereo it's too late. Yeah, it doesn't sound good. Must have been how I mastered it/mixed it/encoded the mp3/whatever. If you don't know right at the moment the sound is captured, it is going to be a long frustrating journey to troubleshoot your problem. You can't learn to hear without the presence of the sound you are trying to learn to hear.

I made an observation in another thread that the standards and bar set in home recording seems really high ! In a way that's a good thing but sometimes, I wonder if we're not taking into account progression. To put it bluntly, someone new, in my opinion, needs to know that there is a learning curve and that it takes time and sweat to progress up this curve if you want to.
Agreed. The learning curve is brutal. But the learning curve is almost 100% learning how to listen. Once you know that, the technical details of the "how" fall in to place.
Things like room treatment make a difference to someone whose ears are sufficiently trained {and by that, I don't mean an expert}, not someone who doesn't have a clue because how will they know what effects what ?
Like I said, you can't learn to listen without being around the sound you are trying to listen to.
If after a few months said newbie is back saying "I'm having this problem and that problem", then I'd say that is sometimes a good thing. It represents progression.
But they almost always assume the problem is in the wrong place...because they didn't learn to listen.
Incidentally, Chibi and Bristol, I'm not knocking what you've said. I think it's been really valuable and it hopefully will get people thinking along lines they otherwise wouldn't have. But for the new home recorder who wants to record and enjoy what they do and who isn't necesarilly at this point looking for nirvana, wouldn't they need to just hit basics first ?
And that's just it. A misunderstanding of the what the basics even are. Interfaces and mics and whatnot... those are the nitpicky details. The sound you are hearing and manipulating, THAT's the basics.

Once you get past that and seek audio nirvana, then you start in with the gear upgrades.
 
But for a beginner, things like what a good sound is or isn't becomes much of a muchness. If you have a 'bad sound' {your words} but it sounds good to you, it's going to take some time before you get to the point where you change your mind about what is and what isn't a good sound.
I made an observation in another thread that the standards and bar set in home recording seems really high ! In a way that's a good thing but sometimes, I wonder if we're not taking into account progression. To put it bluntly, someone new, in my opinion, needs to know that there is a learning curve and that it takes time and sweat to progress up this curve if you want to. Things like room treatment make a difference to someone whose ears are sufficiently trained {and by that, I don't mean an expert}, not someone who doesn't have a clue because how will they know what effects what ? If after a few months said newbie is back saying "I'm having this problem and that problem", then I'd say that is sometimes a good thing. It represents progression.
Incidentally, Chibi and Bristol, I'm not knocking what you've said. I think it's been really valuable and it hopefully will get people thinking along lines they otherwise wouldn't have. But for the new home recorder who wants to record and enjoy what they do and who isn't necesarilly at this point looking for nirvana, wouldn't they need to just hit basics first ? Part of the reason home recording has really taken off, whether rightly or wrongly, is because people can make music at home without all the (as they see it) drama, heavy weather and construction skills that it always seemed was necesary. Get a machine, plug in and go ! Then as one gets further in.........
Had this been in a section other than the newbie one, I wouldn't really have said any of that. I assume that if a question is in the newbie bit, that the poster is new at all this.

Fair points and yes at the outset you don't know what you don't know but since the OP is asking where he is best served spending his money why not open those options up and with a little reasearch you can do all four corners for about $100......

I think I've seen both Weasel and Massive Mastering say they wouldn't even bother shooting a room to see how bad it is until they've at the very least treated the corners since that will always be required anyway and will always make a significant improvement. Even if at the outset you can't tell what the treatment is doing. It is doing it anyway and making things sound better. You will be learning your technique, Listening skills and monitors in a better room from the outset.

I didn't treat my room first when I started out and now I really, really wish I had. Once I did set up propper treatment, I had to relearn everything. All my mic positioning skills, listening skills and completely relearn my monitors. If the treatment had been there at the start, I would not have wasted those 8 months or so doing things poorly and wondering why I couldn't get the results I wanted and thinking what gear/software I needed to buy to get it right. And in the end a lot of tme and money fiddling with new stuff that still didn't fix what was wrong because it was the room itself that was the problem. In the end my first two little EP projects suffered because I had missed that one key point at the very start. And of course as the gear lust takes hold boring old room treatment generally gets pushed further and further down the list of things to do.

To paraphrase Chibi Nappa, The best mic in the world, through the best pre in the world, through the best AD converters in the world in a bad room gives you a perfect recording of a crappy sound. If you then compound that by not being able to trust what you hear...... well you may find yourself buying a lot of stuff at sweetwater to try and fix the mix when $100 - $200 of DIY treatment would have made all the difference.

As a (somewhat stale) Newbie myself I wish someone had told me to hold back the excitement on the flashy gear and get the room right first because if you can't get the sound right at the very start of the process and then hear it back accurately, nothing else really makes much difference.
 
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"get the room right first because if you can't get the sound right at the very start of the process and then hear it back accurately, nothing else really makes much difference."

Very true.
And I was in a similar situation. Started off...got G.A.S. ...bought gear, admired the pretty lights :D , made some recordings that sounded like ass, learned some more, made some better recordings that still didn't translate very well...

Finally listened to a friend of mine that said, "Dude...ya gotta tune your room. Ya tune your guitar right? Well, tune your room"

First things I did was put bass traps to the left n right of my mixing station and that, just that, made a difference. Put in some more traps, put some gobos up, put an acoustic cloud in...

and my recordings still sound like shit :D but now I know it's not the room. :D

This may not have the glitz and glamour as new gear and pretty lights but....imo...

1st in importance is the room
2nd is the monitors
3rd is everything else. :)
 
I live in the countryside and have birds and stuff chirping around outside too

3) Use a dynamic mic for recording vocals (personally I lke the SM7b but there are tons of great dynamics for vocals) and keep the recording end pointed away from the area where bird noise originates. The cartoid patern of the and lower sensetivity mic means that sounds from behind the mic (non recording end) are pretty effectively rejected

Sorry Bristol but I gotta disagree with you here. Something similar to this was brought up recently in another thread.

Summary: If you're looking to get more rejection from background noise, there's no reason why a dynamic mic will do a better job of it than any other kind of microphone. Instead, three things make the difference:

1) The polar pattern - Cardioid, Hypercardioid, Supercardioid etc. will do a fine job of picking up the sound in front of the mic, and reject sounds from the rears (however the more cardioid it gets, there's some small pickup at the very rear of the mic). In contrast, omnidirectional and figure of 8 mics will pick up more background noise due to their pickup response.

2) How close you are to the mic - As you come closer to the mic, the (source) signal that the mic picks up becomes louder, whereas the background noise stays at the same level, which further increases the ratio of source signal vs. room tone/background noise. This also means that you can gain the mic less to compensate for the increase in source signal (so that its at a similar level as when you were further back), but it will also reduce the background noise.

3) How loud the source sound is - This is the only one that doesn't affect room tone as much, however it does affect things like birds chirping in the background (or other background noises). As you sing louder, or turn the amp up etc. while the background noise stays at the same level, the ratio of source sound vs. background noise increases (see above for how this reduces background noise of recording). The reason it doesn't affect room tone as much is because the louder the source sound is, the louder it will be in the room, therefore the tone that the room generates as a result will become louder. Although there will still be an increase of source sound vs. room tone

Take a look at this thread, starting with post 18: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=300830
 
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