How To Use Delay

  • Thread starter Thread starter Christopher_xo
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I mean, I realize you're joking, but why not?

I'm actually only kind of half-joking.

I mean, a band is guitar, bass, drums, vox.
The guitar is ALWAYS doubled.
The bass and drums are NEVER doubled.
The above never changes forever and ever amen.

That would sound just as random as any standard if it wasn't drilled into our heads for the past 40 years.
 
I hope to get to this point someday, i.e. to be able to make the most both from what's there in the song and from my strengths as a mixing engineer, and to hell with the flavour of the month. I'm nowhere near that, however, so I do try to keep in mind the contemporary production norms. Not that too many people notice that, mind - everybody keeps accusing me that while my mixes have become reasonably good and tasteful over the years, I remain stuck in the 80s. (I actually used to be proud of that for a while but it's now beginning to get on my nerves because I've realised that the 80s are a sort of a technological platform nowadays and that I should work on taking my sound beyond that.)
Then maybe your mixes are too wet? One thing you should notice about most modern production is that it is relatively dry and in your face. There are no big reverberant snares, echoy vocals-cals-cals, and the like, although reverb and delay are still being used. :)
 
I personally think the sound it produced is superior to any digital delay. Just my opinion.
I personally think tape delay has a unique sound to itself which is wonderful... as to whether it is superior to digital delay? I have to disagree because you can do so many k3wl (:p :D) things with some digital delays (I already mentioned a few in an earlier post) and that have their own unique and wonderful sound that are simply not possible with tape.
 
"Double everything...pan it hard...put xxx milliseconds of delay on it".

XXX milliseconds of delay? Man, that's raunchy!

So... if I put 666 milliseconds of delay on my organ will it be devilish? :confused:
 
Miroslav. Is that tape echo unit still available? I used to press my A3340-s into service but it's out of whack now. If I could find a source for a good quality tape echo unit I'd buy it in a heart beat! All my songs are early rockabilly stuff so it would suit my purpose. Or I'll try to master the math. Thanks

There is this Fulltone thing out there that uses a real tape, but not sure how it sounds. Might want to look into it.
 
So, I've been playing around with Absynth's Aetherizer effect. It's fuckin awesome! Good thing you can use Absynth as an FX, so I can apply it to other things outside of Absynth.

Delays + reverb + phaser/flanger + doubler (a-la Eventide Harmonizer) + LazerVerb (from Kurzweil KDFX/KSP8) + NI Spektral Delay... wooohooo, awesome tripped out paddy atmospheric stuff. Pure ear candy. Lovely.... just gotta make sure you cut it out. Works great as intro/middle sparse stuff, but too much candy can give you cavities. But it's still tasty stuff.
 
Whoaw, a great response from everybody! Thanks a lot guys.

Will be putting it all into practice.:cool:
 
I don't double mic guitar cabs too often, mainly 'cuz I always end up liking one of the mics/tracks way more than the other...:D...so then I get rid of the crappier track, and then play/record the part a second time using a different guitar....and using the same, one mic I liked the most.

That way...I don't need to mess with EQ to make them sound different since they do on their own, and because they are two different performances, I get less phasing issues.
I can pan them any way I like...even hard L/R...and there's no need to add delay to "separate" them like you would with a split/doubled track.

Or...if it works for the song...I will track the same rhythm guitar part a second time using an acoustic guitar, which can sound really nice against the electric if you pan them apart.

I've bookmarked this thread, and this post will give me a different way to try stuff next time. Thanks, Miroslav.
 
So, if I want a true stereo image of an instrument I should mic it for stereo such as a coincident pair of matched mics. Correct?
 
I too am worn out on Autotune. But I gotta' go the other way on the rest of what you said. It's just not a subtle, light, tasteful thing. Either go totally balls-out and make the vocal into some synth electro robo part like Daft Punk soloing with their vocoder, or leave it off.

But to slather it on everything even in cases where the singer can sing and the effect is not warranted, yeah they can knock that off any time now.
I'm really wondering whether "autotune on everything" is just an extended fad or whether it's going to stay with pop music for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't put my money on either - the general public doesn't seem to mind (if they notice it at all, the subtler stuff I mean), and like I mentioned in another thread, it's affecting even those of us who don't like it. I have definitely become more perceptive of the lack of autotune records, not necessarily because they're poorly sung but because autotune just has a sound to it that has nothing to do with pitch correction (well, combined with ever-increasing amounts of compression, saturation, layering etc). And I have to say that I sometimes find myself wishing that the vocal was fatter because some material would simply work better if that was the case.

Then maybe your mixes are too wet? One thing you should notice about most modern production is that it is relatively dry and in your face. There are no big reverberant snares, echoy vocals-cals-cals, and the like, although reverb and delay are still being used. :)
I don't think so, I think it's in the arrangement. But you be the judge - here's the last one I did (I hope it's not in bad taste posting links to songs here). It's not all that wet I think, but I seem to be trailing Depeche Mode by about 15 years for one reason or another ...
 
I have definitely become more perceptive of the lack of autotune records, not necessarily because they're poorly sung but because autotune just has a sound to it that has nothing to do with pitch correction (well, combined with ever-increasing amounts of compression, saturation, layering etc). And I have to say that I sometimes find myself wishing that the vocal was fatter because some material would simply work better if that was the case.

Do you think Autotune makes vocals sound "fatter"....?
 
I looked it up. It's looks like the old Ecoplex, almost an exact duplication but the new one claims to have made some sonic improvements. I once owned an Echoplex. It was great for live gigs but was tempremental and when the tape cartridge wore out, impossible to find a reliable source of replacement.
 
Do you think Autotune makes vocals sound "fatter"....?
Like I said, it's a like an audio cocktail, it works together with all the other processing, but something tells me that the element of the vocals being dead in tune is very important for the combined impact of the vocal arrangement. It's difficult to explain it, different people may perceive differently, but for me, it makes everything feel so very uncompromising, and I like that in a vocal.
 
I'm actually only kind of half-joking.

I mean, a band is guitar, bass, drums, vox.
The guitar is ALWAYS doubled.
The bass and drums are NEVER doubled.
The above never changes forever and ever amen.

That would sound just as random as any standard if it wasn't drilled into our heads for the past 40 years.

Well, part of it I think has to do with attack/decay characteristics, too.

Distorted guitars have an attack, but it's not super distinct and the "body" of the sustain is pretty comparable to the attack. So, they're easy to layer because if the attacks are ever-so-slightly off it doesn't matter so much.

Similarly, vocals are often doubled, especially when you're talking about harmony vocals where you're not really so oriented on the initial attack, but it's more about the sustained notes.

Clean guitars have a stronger attack that drops off much more quickly as they sustain, and accordingly are tough to really double and get that "not many guitars, one BIGGER guitar!" effect. Acoustic? Much worse, and it's an absolute nightmare to double without it sounding distinctly like seperate parts.

By extension, doubling drums, which are so prominently about the attack and have little decay to speak of, would be incredibly tough. Bass, on the other hand, if you think about it might actually lend itself well to being doubled - unless you're doing slap bass or semi-distorted bass with a lot of "click" from the pick, theoretically a fairly compressed bass shouldn't be such a problem... I'd only worry about it making the low end TOO expansive.

Idunno. Just thinking out loud, really...
 
Bass, on the other hand, if you think about it might actually lend itself well to being doubled - unless you're doing slap bass or semi-distorted bass with a lot of "click" from the pick, theoretically a fairly compressed bass shouldn't be such a problem... I'd only worry about it making the low end TOO expansive.
But wouldn't that result in phase cancellations and therefore uneven level (nothing really hard compression couldn't cure to an extent I suppose, but why even go there), as well as other nasty things that you really don't want going on in the bass region? I may be off here but every audio engineer I've ever learnt from advised me to leave the bass well alone.
 
But wouldn't that result in phase cancellations and therefore uneven level (nothing really hard compression couldn't cure to an extent I suppose, but why even go there), as well as other nasty things that you really don't want going on in the bass region? I may be off here but every audio engineer I've ever learnt from advised me to leave the bass well alone.
Likely more due to the line between additional information down there being interesting or effective and a 'mooshy mooshy situation is quite a bit less forgiving.

Doubling drums? Yeah it can be done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMxHBcqAFro&feature=related
:D
 
But wouldn't that result in phase cancellations and therefore uneven level (nothing really hard compression couldn't cure to an extent I suppose, but why even go there), as well as other nasty things that you really don't want going on in the bass region? I may be off here but every audio engineer I've ever learnt from advised me to leave the bass well alone.

Well, it really depends on what you mean by "phase cancellation." Since I'm talking about actually doubling and not putting two mics on the same source, I don't think actual phase notching and whatnot would be an issue, since there are two different signals in play.

I mean, I have no experience doing this, nor am I necessarily advocating doing so... But theoretically I think a darker bass tone would lend itself to doubling similar to the way a distorted guitar does. Whether or not the result would be musically appealing is of course anyone's guess. :D
 
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