Horkin My Lunch
New member
I've learned it's best to disregard them all together and just tell the person you'll do it his way when you're just going to go ahead as planned. Sneaky sneaky.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
That's the whole story in a nutshell.
It's not a question of who's the most arrogant or stubborn, or even who knows more than the other; it's a question of who everybody agrees is in charge of those decisions. Like it or not, *somebody* has to be. The music production needs a producer the same way a movie or a stage play or a TV or radio commercial needs a director or a radio show needs a producer.
It's not only a question of who decides what direction the sounds should take, but also how much time and money should be budgeted and how that time and money should best be spent. This is obvious when you're paying by the hour for studio time; spending an hour or two arguing over whether the guitar sounds distorted enough gets expensive and wasteful real quick.
But even more than that, does the band really want to spend that time, even if they are not paying by the hour, when they only have a day or an afternoon together to get that EP's tracks recorded? Maybe so. Maybe not. But without someone calling those shots , your going to wind up with four or five or six (including the engineer) all with their own ideas and priorities as to what to do and what to do next, and before you know it it's midnight and nothing has really gotten done.
You're right, most bands new to recording don't have a producer - or at least don't realize they have one and don't know they need one. That's why I always sit sown with then at the beginning and ask them before the clock even starts to tell me who the producer is going to be. Usually in these kind of situations it's going to be either the band leader or a joint effort between the bandleader and the engineer.But once that leadership is set, it has to be adhered to and the producer has to take control.
If nobody there really knows what they're doing, then it's pretty much the blind leading the blind and you're all on your own. In which case, the only way to handle the know-it-all is to give at least as much rope as he asks for and let him hang himself.
If it's a case where the band really does know more about the engineering than the engineer, then the band has nobody to blame but themselves for hiring the wrong guy for the engineering job. That, BTW, is another responsibility of the producer. If the producer sees that the engineer is in over his/her head, then it's the producer's responsibility to take care of that as he sees fit as well.
G.
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RD423
New member
If they are a paying client I do it how they want me 2 but I do make certain suggestions and I tell them, "U know it will sound better if we do it this way, You should at least try it and if u don't like it we can do it your way" Majority of the time it works, especially if they have respect for you as a engineer. But sometimes it doesn't and I laugh at them when it doesn't sound good at all.
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recordist87
Banned
tell him amateur hour is over
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cecerre
New member
The (paying) customer is always right.
witzendoz
Senior Member
I always listen to suggestions, but sometimes I know that it is not the right way to go and that it will sound better the way I want to do it. I explain why but If they insist on doing it their way than do it their way, they are paying for the time so if we waste time trying out their way it's their cost.
As I have gotten older I have found that I do not always want to work with some people, I have in the past decided that working with some people is so unpleasant and stressful that I just tell then I can't work with them and suggest they try somewhere else. Recording is meant to be creative and fun as well as business, isn't that why we got into it in the first place?
Cheers
Alan.
As I have gotten older I have found that I do not always want to work with some people, I have in the past decided that working with some people is so unpleasant and stressful that I just tell then I can't work with them and suggest they try somewhere else. Recording is meant to be creative and fun as well as business, isn't that why we got into it in the first place?
Cheers
Alan.
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MCI2424
New member
The band is paying an engineer to run the equipment. Unless the engineer is hired to be a producer, put the mic where the band wants it. The band knows what they want. If they don't, then they will have to learn the hard way. The engineer will still be blamed for it anyway.
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chewbacaface
New member
Hey, my drummer is one of these guys and he routinely makes things up if he doesn't know about the subject at hand. I listened to him talk for a half hour the other night about what a patch bay does and probably 75% of it was pure fiction.
At some point you just let them talk and then do what you need to do.
For example, we will have to track the drums twice this session and next session because he...
1 - wont play to a click track although the songs basically require it due to long pauses and intros/outros.
2 - requires that we try a completely useless and untested microphone configuration just to prove to him that it wont sound good even though we have a tested method that we all agree sounds good.
Sometimes, people just need to have their voice heard to feel like they are part of the process and I think basically you just deal with it whether it be in recording, or practice, or shows, etc...
At some point you just let them talk and then do what you need to do.
For example, we will have to track the drums twice this session and next session because he...
1 - wont play to a click track although the songs basically require it due to long pauses and intros/outros.
2 - requires that we try a completely useless and untested microphone configuration just to prove to him that it wont sound good even though we have a tested method that we all agree sounds good.
Sometimes, people just need to have their voice heard to feel like they are part of the process and I think basically you just deal with it whether it be in recording, or practice, or shows, etc...
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
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chewbacaface
New member
This made my day! My ribs hurt from laughing so hard
G.
It's nice to have a laugh about it now. It used to be a serious headache for me but I've learned that the less I respond to it, the shorter I'll have to suffer through it. I've stopped trying to explain how things actually work and I just let his talk while I set things up. He's a good dude. It's a lot more about ego than equipment. I catch myself smiling and biting my lip trying not to laugh as I hide in the corner.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I hear ya. If/when I can get back to the point where I can have my own dedicated studio, I would plan to hang a sign on the door to the studio itself that says "All egos must be checked at the door." If there's one thing I've noticed that separates a "professional quality" session from the rest is when the artists (and engineers) just come in and leave their egos at the door and let everyone work together by letting everyone do their own job.
Granted, when someone is incompetent at their job, it's gets hard to follow that ideal, but everyone should be given a chance to prove themselves first.
G.
ez_willis
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to what extent? seems like a giant waste of time and money to let an idiot drummer "prove himself" as a competent audio engineer or producer.
i subscribe to the philosophy of hire the right people and let them do their job.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
I agree. What I meant by that was just the opposite; that the engineer should be given a chance to prove themselves before the guitarist goes off trying to tell him how to mic the session. And conversely, the guitarist should be given at least a take or two to prove that he actually knows how to play guitar before anyone tells him how to do it.
G.
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chewbacaface
New member
Yeah, at the studio is sucks but it happens a lot less there when we are paying for it.
As soon as it is me recording our band (which I play in), it's like an open door to have an authoratative opinion. They assume that, just because it's a home studio and I built it myself, they know just as much about it as I do. They don't really realize that I have spent hours working with my stuff trying different setups to get different sounds, etc... They basically just assume that you turn it on and then move the dials to 12 o'clock and you're good. They don't see the legwork. They think it's fair game to push all the buttons and turn all the knobs in a way they would never do at a studio. Thus, we are paying for this album because I got sick of hearing all of the advice/opinions. I recorded the first two EPs with half of the equipment I have now and people consistently note the production (which is funny considering what I did it with). I'm going to track the next one after this and let someone else mix/master it just so I don't have to have them all sit in my room and ask me to turn up their parts over and over again.
It's madness.
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noisegames
New member
this is a very interesting thread.
whatever happens, if the engineer stays calm and keeps an eye on the bigger picture then nothing should go terribly wrong.
whatever happens, if the engineer stays calm and keeps an eye on the bigger picture then nothing should go terribly wrong.
ez_willis
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right. and when you give them their shitty recording because you did things their way, you'll be broke in a year.
witzendoz
Senior Member
No, when it gets that bad I move onto part 2 of what I said.
As I have gotten older I have found that I do not always want to work with some people, I have in the past decided that working with some people is so unpleasant and stressful that I just tell then I can't work with them and suggest they try somewhere else.
Or I tell them that if they insist on doing it the way they want and I am not happy with the results, they are to not put my name or the name of the studio on the CD cover.
Cheers
Alan.
ez_willis
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oh. i NEVER make it that far.
ez_willis
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....which is why it's so important to make your point precisely and very quickly.
witzendoz
Senior Member
It takes a while to get that far, people often comment about how much patience I have in the studio. However there is a point that I won't go on working with people.
....which is why it's so important to make your point precisely and very quickly.
I do make my points very quickly and precisely, but what do you do if that does not work and the client insists in doing it their way? I think that was the original question asked in this thread, and what do you do when everyone listens to the results and looks at you because it's your studio that recorded it?
Sometimes you have to walk away.
Cheers
Alan.
