one of the most important questions in music. no jokes

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marioantigod said:
is this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P9-XAnI59U&feature=related

"instead playin random notes, i would consciously think what note will be after what note".


u see, even carl varheyen asks the same questions as i do:)
thanks
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Ah, I see what your asking. There is somethings you have to just do over and over before you have a firm grasp of where you are on the guitar all the time and where you want to go. The truth is I would suggest some open jam sessions where everyone just improvises over a tune. The truth is that is the best way to achieve what you want. There really is no technique that anyone can tell you. It comes from hours and hours of doing it and developing as a guitarist. Good luck.
 
New Guy said:
The truth is I would suggest some open jam sessions where everyone just improvises over a tune.
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thats how i did my 3 tunes. after ~20 passes of improvisations i was able to understand what does a tune needs. as one guy said, song dictates what it wants from u.

and as u say, u have to have a good grasp where u are on the guitar. i call it - visualizing sound of the notes on the fretboard in my mind before i play them. that way i know what im gonna play next. otherwise there is no way for me to play.

what can u say about my 3 tunes?

btw, u have to think before u say or sing. u have to know exactly what u gonna sing. its just much easier to transfer everything to vocal chords than guitar. u always have to think!.

many thanks for understanding and help.
 
New Guy said:
The truth is that is the best way to achieve what you want. There really is no technique that anyone can tell you. It comes from hours and hours of doing it and developing as a guitarist. Good luck.
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i almost "lost my hope" finding the "right way".
im almost sure that that visualizing or grasp is VERY PERSONAL THING.
how good u r at that depends on each individual. it just needs practice and keep goin that way.
I TRYED MY BEST TO EXPLAIN THAT WAY FROM VERY BEGINNING AND SHARE WITH OTHERS. I HOPE IT WILL HELP FOR SOMEBODY TOO.

btw, i feel that closing my eyes helps to concentrate on my visualizing the sounds and intervals more. many people recommend that.
its no secret.

thanks
 
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I think you hit the nail on the head. It is very personal thing and finding your own way is the key. You use a visual way of conceiving where you are going, and I hear where I want to go. Practicing and getting better at ti just comes with time as does definition of style.

Where are your songs and I will give a listen.
 
New Guy said:
I think you hit the nail on the head. It is very personal thing and finding your own way is the key. You use a visual way of conceiving where you are going, and I hear where I want to go. Practicing and getting better at ti just comes with time as does definition of style.

Where are your songs and I will give a listen.
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a bit sad that u didnt follow entire thread. anyway:
http://www.myspace.com/marioantigod

tell straight what u think. no lollypops and sweeeeet words here.

btw, i used to play music like yours earlier, blues is my root. but i was always attracted to heavier stuff. taste is taste.
and your songs are nice. u r kinda uncommercial blues, roben ford type of guy.

thanks mate.
 
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I will shoot you straight, both good and the opportunities. First of all, i like your songs, the darker floyd sound is cool. I can hear your blues Pentatonic influence, and this is what I would tell you.

First and most important, you do have feel in your playing and that is critical. You don't sound mechanical or like you are just playing notes. I can hear that you mean it, that is good. Your taking a nice melodic approach rather than just strung together licks, that is a great approach. However the opportunity is that you need some flavor in your style, playing a melodic line is great, how you play the melodic line is everything. Choosing to bend up to a note rather than slide up to a note, adding a couple of 16ths before you hit the note to break it up and keep the listener interested in what you have to say on the guitar is important. Slight vibrato on notes makes a difference, rather than play one note to the next, add a line that leads to the next note with maybe a lick or two. If this is the style you are going to adhere to, I would suggest listening to how David Gilmore plays. he plays a lot of melodic lines in Pentatonic and adds a lot of flavor to keep the listener with him. I think you have a lot of potential, I would strongly suggest getting out with some other musicians and jaming and learning how others approach their melodic lines. It is the best way to develop as a guitarist and build as a musician. I think overall what you are meaning when you say see what comes next is the melody of your lead, that is part of it. But how you do it is your style, and that is what seperates and defines the guitarist. I hope this helps.
 
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marioantigod said:
btw, u have to think before u say or sing. u have to know exactly what u gonna sing. its just much easier to transfer everything to vocal chords than guitar. u always have to think!...
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This is where I think you are missing something. You do not have to think before you speak. You can speak directly from your spirit. Didn't your mouth ever write a check your body couldn't cash?
 
marioantigod said:
... visualizing sound of the notes on the fretboard in my mind before i play them. that way i know what im gonna play next. otherwise there is no way for me to play...
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Humans are pretty stupid - they have a hard time living in the present. My dogs are brilliant in that respect - they only live in the present. They don't give a shit about yesterday or tomorrow or even a minute from now.

For me, if you are visualizing what to play next, you are thinking about the future.

So I would try to not think at all when you play - play by feel. Only think ahead and visualize things when you practice. But when you play, it usually works out best if you don't think at all and just play by feel.

And marioantigod, I know you asked for none, but would it be ok with you if we had one, just one joke to liven things up?
 
dintymoore said:
Humans are pretty stupid - they have a hard time living in the present. My dogs are brilliant in that respect - they only live in the present. They don't give a shit about yesterday or tomorrow or even a minute from now.

For me, if you are visualizing what to play next, you are thinking about the future.

So I would try to not think at all when you play - play by feel. Only think ahead and visualize things when you practice. But when you play, it usually works out best if you don't think at all and just play by feel.

And marioantigod, I know you asked for none, but would it be ok with you if we had one, just one joke to liven things up?
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NYMorningstar said:
.. You do not have to think before you speak. You can speak directly from your spirit.
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Didn't your mouth ever write a check your body couldn't cash?
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This here is classic though! :) My answer (and I bet I'm not alone :p Big yes. 'Mouth' and 'stage'! Yep. :p

But hey, all this think, don't think, at the gig, not at the gig, doesn't it come down to YES, both, depending. Wouldn't you think ahead sometimes, improv on stage, depending on the mode you're in? My god, sometimes it's 'heard what just got played by the other bloke, now it's a mix of 'take it in, consider what you're head hands you back, a new combo of decide' or let it fly, modify or not, then go for it.. (elapsed time i don't know..what, about 20ms?.. :D Hell, sometimes the best 'improv response is not what your head just handed you but in second milisec' thought is 'shut the fuck up! This is a listening/thinking part that is vital. (probably not just opinion, but perhaps off topic :o
Now comes the part I thought OP was originally asking; How do you get to where, (and whether you're in conscious or 'spirit mode matters not here I think) what comes out is exactly executed on the ax. To that particular aspect- what way could there possibly be but time, work, lots of it? I ain't there, 'it ain't me babe, no allusions here, so I'm out of here.. er, there. :p:)
I read an account once of an audition. Something along 'Host plays incredibly complex (by mere lowliest like me) jazz head, says to auditiony', play it back to me.
Carry on.
 
mixsit said:
This here is classic though! :) My answer (and I bet I'm not alone :p Big yes. 'Mouth' and 'stage'! Yep. :p

But hey, all this think, don't think, at the gig, not at the gig, doesn't it come down to YES, both, depending. Wouldn't you think ahead sometimes, improv on stage, depending on the mode you're in? My god, sometimes it's 'heard what just got played by the other bloke, now it's a mix of 'take it in, consider what you're head hands you back, a new combo of decide' or let it fly, modify or not, then go for it.. (elapsed time i don't know..what, about 20ms?.. :D
Now comes the part I thought OP was originally asking; How do you get to where, (and whether you're in conscious or 'spirit mode matters not here I think) what comes out is exactly executed on the ax. To that particular aspect- what way could there possibly be but time, work, lots of it? I ain't there, 'it ain't me babe, no allusions here, so I'm out of here.. er, there. :p:)
I read an account once of an audition. Something along 'Host plays incredibly complex (by mere lowliest like me) jazz head, says to auditiony', play it back to me.
Carry on.
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it's fun, right?
 
mixsit said:
... Wouldn't you think ahead sometimes, improv on stage, depending on the mode you're in?...
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Absolutely, because in reality there's no rules. Sometimes, for example, you might try to pace your solo a bit and think about that.

The reason I was saying what I did to marioantigod is because to me it sounds like he's thinking about what he's going to play too much.

For me, when I'm playing what I think is my best, I kinda feel like it's not even me. Like something else is coming through me. You can't make that happen, you just need to practice your brains out and hopefully it will happen on it's own.

Louis Armstrong had a concept of "singing through your instrument" and it should feel like that. I don't know if people today have any idea what a massive impact Louis Armstrong had on everything that came after, like Hendrix, everybody.
 
dintymoore said:
Louis Armstrong had a concept of "singing through your instrument" and it should feel like that.
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it is the main target for every instrumentalist. absolutely the main.
watch hendrix's jaw when he plays. he sings all the time. and it looks like he wants to make his guitar sing the way he does.
it is so obvious. look at vai's face, bb's, malmsteen's. this is the "secret" of music.
im bleeding from inside trying to develop it. sad thing is that instrument will never sing with u in 100%.
we can only try to reach that goal as close as possible. but nobody reached it to the end. that is the cruel nature of that. it is impossible to fully enslave the voice that is outside your body.
 
that thinking has to become a second nature. its like a good breathing that has to become a second nature too. i hope to reach that state of freedom.
everything is hidden from us. u even dont know where u came from and where u r goin.
u dont know who u are. and u often dont know how to develop your advantages.
one vise guy said: our backs often hurt because we r not enough used to walk on two legs. and thats a truth.
 
marioantigod said:
why not...................................................
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Thanks marioantigod. The trouble is that I'm terrible at "planned" jokes.

I think what I was getting at is that it helps to laugh, to stay loose.

From your posts I think you understand what you need to do, it will take years or even the rest of your life, but there is nothing wrong with that.
 
marioantigod said:
u are the one that understands me 100%. but u dont answer my question:
how to make fingers follow that singing/creative thinking/emotions? especially then improvising, when u dont have extra time. what is your method? can u describe that "and then try to play it."?

that is the question.
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I think what you are talking about is training your ear to understand the sound that you are hearing. Like, closing your eyes, and plucking a note, and being able to know what that note is without looking at the fret your are plucking it on.

That is a big part of being able to improvise. If you train your ear, and know your fret board, you will rarely need to look at your fretting hand.
 
jeffchastain said:
I think what you are talking about is training your ear to understand the sound that you are hearing. Like, closing your eyes, and plucking a note, and being able to know what that note is without looking at the fret your are plucking it on.

That is a big part of being able to improvise. If you train your ear, and know your fret board, you will rarely need to look at your fretting hand.
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yes. i call it - visualizing the notes(and im a beginner here, must say). but sad thing is that i can only use that visualization only. if i want to use only my ideas without depending on any pre visualized material on the fretboard, im lost at playing my ideas almost completely. its almost impossible to connect free thinking/idea generations with "stupid" fingers. i can create wonderful ideas, but they only will work after i wrote them on the paper or recorded as a non improvisational material, and then rehearsed. or i can make hundreds of pre-visualized improvisational attempts and then find something crystalized and potential out of it, but it is not free thinking, free roll.
so, only compromise works for improvisations. AND I FIND IT BEING VERY LIMITING. thats why it makes me discuss about such things.

btw, i used to sing out my ideas and then try to find them and play them on guitar as quick as possible. first, using simple 3-4 note ideas and playing only on one string. interval training , should say. i saw that it takes time and makes improvisation almost impossible. then i found my "way of visualization" to be able to improvise. i cant find nothing better by far and i try to improve to decrease my limitations.
its like being a strong predator trying to break free from its thick cage. thats why a hope is built in a stupid creatures like humans.
to not die in that cage.

thank u.
 
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marioantigod said:
without thinking what to play it is impossible to play exact thing. music is exact, could say mathematic thing. if u dont create an idea before playing, u r leaving notes "for the fortune", i mean "maybe it will work , maybe not". and answer is that it never works. most of the players stay in that bad condition.
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Try telling that to the zillions of people that improvise. Sometimes music is very exact and thought about. Sometimes it is not. And sometimes it's in between and sometimes it's neither. Entire songs have been written from an improvised section in a jam session that was anything but thought out. Still sounded great though.
 
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