one of the most important questions in music. no jokes

[marioantigod]

please read all posts in this thread before answering.
otherwise we will be out of time.
thanks.

one of the most important questions in music. no jokes
hi to everybody,
ye i decided to ask u a question that i feel is the most important in music.
no jokes here.

let me explain u my way of creating my music.
i play guitar and sing. metal heavy stuff, sometimes blues.

lets talk about guitar playin first:
for me the main thing is to give myself an order to create something, and then i use those ideas, that come one by one in my brain in miliseconds, to improvise.
well. im creating idea after idea, making myself to think each second and forward.
all the rest, i mean fingers, face expression and singing out those ideas, come as a secondary thing, naturally, because the rest of the body follows the mind which is into intensive thinking. fingers try to follow the mind as best as they can.
the worst thing here is that it is impossible to play the exactly the same notes on guitar which are in my brain at the same time. at least i would need a 5 or more seconds to find them all on fretboard. and this does improvisation impossible.
so, i do kinda compromise here. first i choose which scales i will use. then i visualize all the neighbouring notes near my starting note. i mean, i try to guess in my mind how they would sound prior to picking them. so, i try to visualize what i have under my fingers and then i create my ideas based on THAT visualization. trying to visualize sounds of notes as closer as possible. this compromise decreases the the possibility to play whatever is in my head. instead i use only my visualisation to keep "my car on the road".
i cant find other way to do my improvisations. i dont think about my fingers etc, only about advancing further with my ideas based on that visualisation. think think think.

2. singing does not make such problems, cause brains are tightly related to speech mechanism. at least 80 percents u r safe.
u can sing whatever is in your head.

i will wait for your opinions and your ways of playing your instruments. i mean ANY INSTRUMENT, pipe, guitar, keys, drums....does not matter. i dont want to offend somebody, but i need opinions only from guys who make records etc. i mean pros, semipros. people who know what they are doing. i think it would be amazing help for the rest of us. i hope it could be one of the best ever forum thread ever.
your open hearted opinions are highly appreciated. lets reveal that secret.

big thanks.

 

[Chili]

I didn't see a question anywhere in there....

 

[dintymoore]

I didn't see a question anywhere in there....

Me neither.

marioantigod I'm guessing you're looking for ideas about improvising?

Jim Henson, of Muppets fame, has a sign in his museum that says "the only rule is no rules" and that applies to all art, including music.

There's no rules. Growing up I had a close friend go from beginner to virtuoso pro in three years. Me and all my buddies never saw anything like it. The guy is still a top pro. How he did it was a) taking lessons from the best b) learning songs, tons of songs.

Copy songs. After you copy tons of solos, note for note, you won't ask how to improvise. That's how we learned to talk and walk - by copying.

Learning song after song after song is the best way of learning an instrument I know of, and also it helps to sit down with great players and watch and listen.

 

[marioantigod]

please read all posts in this thread before answering.
otherwise we will be out of time.
thanks.


u guys understand me oppositely. do u create your own music and record in studio?

i have plenty of ideas, brave and creative ideas. i try my best to develop better ways for my playin and songwriting.
but how to make fingers follow as close as what your mind dictates? how to rule the instrument, instead being ruled by instrument?

see the faces of steve vai, buddy guy, bb... u can almost see what they are thinking in their expressions. they have a method to lay down their ideas onto fingerboard straight away. but how to make fingers be in unison with the busy creative mind??????? how to unlock full potential as an instrument player???????
there is a big secret here. lots of secrets. u are a good or u are just a copycat. thats a difference between a musician and non thinking bumblebee, cover band hobbyist.
and also, it is not a singing.... it is much harder.. many instrument players say, that if they start thinking of what their fingers do, they wont be able to play such fast or difficult things.

thats why your friend became a pro. he found that secret from somewhere or inside himself.
ask him my question, if u can.

thats why we have one MUSICIAN from millions, yes millions, of "musicians". get it? it is a big secret, believe me or not.
and it is a BIG RULE how to be REAL.

thanks
ps: i hope that it does not sound too esoteric. i try to be down to earth as i can.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

I've been drumming for 20 years. 80% of all my playing is improvisation, and for me, it's muscle memory. I've been doing it so long that as soon as my brain tells my arms and legs what to do, they're already in position and doing it. The music I'm playing along to tells me what to do, and my mind just follows the music.

The more you practice and the more experience you get, the quicker and easier it gets to improvise. For about 5 years now, I don't even realize I'm thinking about what to do next. It just sort of happens... Well... It happens until I find a piece of music which tells my arms and legs to do something they've never done before. Then I have to stop, program the new beat into my muscles, and then continue on.

Hope that helps.

 

[dintymoore]

u guys understand me oppositely. do u create your own music and record in studio?...

Yes.

... but how to make fingers follow as close as what your mind dictates? how to rule the instrument, instead being ruled by instrument?

Most people need to do lots of practicing, asking questions and tons of gigs to "get it".

It sounds like you just need to do it longer, there's no "one secret" that anyone here can reveal. There is no big secret. The secret is that life is amazing and anything you set your mind on you can accomplish.

"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time" - James Taylor

 

[Chili]

You're right, I completely missed where you were trying to go in your first post. Sorry 'bout that.

I think the basic common denominator for all those great guitarists you've mentioned is Practice. For sure, when they were starting out, they spent hours upon hours everyday practicing. Now that they're at the top of their profession, the constant gigging and living and breathing music keeps their chops up to speed.

btw: I hate practicing. That's why I suck.

 

[dintymoore]

... You're right, I completely missed where you were trying to go in your first post...

You and the rest of the world.

So since no one will come out and for the record state WTF "one of the most important questions in music" actually is, I have a few:

* when do we eat?

* do we get to eat?

* do we get paid in cash?

* other ______________________________

 

[Chili]

I have a few:

* when do we eat?

* do we get to eat?

* do we get paid in cash?

* other ______________________________

If you are a working musician, those would be important.

 

[marioantigod]

please read all posts in this thread before answering.
otherwise we will be out of time.
thanks.

Then I have to stop, program the new beat into my muscles, and then continue on. Hope that helps.

without thinking what to play it is impossible to play exact thing. music is exact, could say mathematic thing. if u dont create an idea before playing, u r leaving notes "for the fortune", i mean "maybe it will work , maybe not". and answer is that it never works. most of the players stay in that bad condition.

there must be idea prior letting fingers go. fingers follow ideas almost unconsciously. and i always rely on thinking. what fingers do it is secondary.
if i would start thinking about fingers more than my ideas - im dead. i think, as u say, after some time u dont have to think, cause mind is kinda always in the rational kinda mathematic thinking stage. and yes, it happens from nothing and nowhere. that is human ability to create.

but now for me is important that "muscle programming". how do u do it? how u can describe it? how u prepare for further improvising after u stuck with something new? im here to hear that.
many thanks for your help.

 

[up-fiddler]

I think the most important....

....question in music is: "How can I get what's in my head into other peoples' ears?" While it is true there are MANY answers to the question....the question remains the same.

 

[marioantigod]

"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time" - James Taylor

but the main thing here is to learn how to enjoy it. to get knowing how. u have to be sure that u know how to REALLY enjoy it. u are right, asking questions is the way to get an answer.

thanks

 

[marioantigod]

....question in music is: "How can I get what's in my head into other peoples' ears?" While it is true there are MANY answers to the question....the question remains the same.

what is your "MANY answers to the question"? what is your answer? how u make your instrument follow your mind when improvising?
im here to hear them. thanks.

 

[marioantigod]

btw, here is a very important statement from pro musicians i hear often on interviews:

"u have to play, not practice. when u practice, u have to play"

that is a secret. play. and that is a huge difference. that is what leaves million loosers behind, and only a few understand it and hit the sky. do u want to be one of them?

so, practice alone does not take u to that level of PLAYING. if u understand how to play, u can play even with your hairs or eyelashes and it will sound like music.
practice is very important, but understanding how to PLAY makes things different. i hope that someone will be able to explain what does that mean.
at least i want to hear what does it mean personally to everyone of you who create and record in studios.
then we could summarize and find the most fundamental understanding.
i hope.

 

[dintymoore]

... how u make your instrument follow your mind when improvising?...

If you just learn a song, and then another one, and then another one, and keep doing that, after a few years you will get good.

The best way I know of learning music is by learning songs. Theory, exercises, scales, gear, licks... all that stuff should be secondary to songs.

It's normal to feel frustrated when you are trying to learn something new.

 

[ez_willis]

i have plenty of ideas, brave and creative ideas. i try my best to develop better ways for my playin and songwriting.
but how to make fingers follow as close as what your mind dictates?.

Ah! NOW i know what you're trying to say. I think philip j. fry said it best:

It's hopeless. I can hear all this great music in my head, but my stupid hands can't keep up!

 

[marioantigod]

the voice is tightly connected to a brain.
but instruments are not. hands are "stupid" but its not their fault.
hopefully some musicians make their hands less "stupid", and find the way to slave their instruments.

 

[ez_willis]

the voice is tightly connected to a brain.
but instruments are not. hands are "stupid" but its not their fault.
hopefully some musicians make their hands less "stupid", and find the way to slave their instruments.

couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[miroslav]

without thinking what to play it is impossible to play exact thing.

If you are thinking about what to play while you are playing...
...you're already lost.

Either you first compose something and then practice it note-for-note until it becomes pure muscle memory and you don't need to be actively "thinking" while playing...
...or if you want to free-improvise as you play, then you actually have to stop actively *thinking* about what you are playing and let your emotions drive your fingers.
Of course, that's only possible if you've already learned your way around the fretboard real good...otherwise, yeah...your fingers are going to be 5 seconds behind your thinking about what notes to play.

What exactly are you after here....tips on how to improvise...ideas for getting better at playing...???
You're not really asking or saying anything specific.

 

[theDAWstudio]

see the faces of steve vai, buddy guy, bb... u can almost see what they are thinking in their expressions.

I agree with most of the other posts that expression like this comes from a lot of practice. I thought I would add another insight that no one else mentioned. If you watch some of the jazz guitarists/singer play their vocal scat guitar lick duos (where they sing and play the same line), you will see that same kind of expression as quoted above. The cool thing is that the key to doing that is not singing what you are playing, it is playing what you are singing. It is much easier and more natural for us to improvise with our voice (until we have put in thousands of hours into an instrument) so try following your voice. Sing a melody or riff, and then try to play it. The voice is really the most personal instrument, because it is physically part of us. Use that to your advantage.