Newly "Mastered" Beatles CD's

  • Thread starter Thread starter jmorris
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jmorris said:
I said some of you need better ears if you cant hear the difference.
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I don't think anybody said they don't sound different than the old CDs.
The difference to me is not a good difference. Way too boomy.Not more bass mind you boomy,unpleasant boomy. Some guitars are lost compaired to org. versions.Mixes sound altered due to eq.changes I assume. Drums on some tune lack balls and punch.Yes, they are louder but who cares.Louder does not mean better or more punchy.
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And here's where we disagree. Granted, I've never heard the Beatles on Vinyl (I'm 32. I missed that boat by the tiniest of margins). But what I've heard of these new CDs sound killer. And this is coming from a guy (me) who can't stand the sound of current CD releases and goes running to his 70's and 90's collections.

Have you tried the mono box? They took a different approach to mastering that one.
 
Hey jmorris, I couldn't agree with you more regarding the latest Beatles debacle. I'm not a purist, but if it looks, walks, and talks like money, then it's money. Comprende?
 
tomszafranski said:
Hey jmorris, I couldn't agree with you more regarding the latest Beatles debacle. I'm not a purist, but if it looks, walks, and talks like money, then it's money. Comprende?
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Yeah, I mean just because its the "Beatles",and it is "Remastered" and its from "Abbey Road studios" does not equal greatness. I love the Beatles,been listening to them for over 38 years but I do feel I am very subjective about it. Abbey Road studios is nowhere what it used to be. In the 60's I do believe they had some of the best sounding gear and guys like Geoff E. that had a very new approach to recording. That is not now. Their gear is no different than any pro studio these days. Yes, they have a good amount of the old gear still there. But, Redd 37 and TGI 12345 mastering consoles are gone.Hell, they had to borrow a console(old vintage TGI) to mix Anthology CD'S. I believe newly mastered Beatles was all DAW. So, mastered with gear
you and I have (DAW),and mastered in studio that is really no better than most top end studios today. I love the Beatles like I said and I love Abbey Raod studios for the history but I cant just go with "oh yeah, its fuckin great,remastered...yeah! just because of who the band is and where it was remastered. The Let It Be naked CD sucked also to me. In "Get Back" Lennons chunky guitar is lost! The long and winding road is the only valid track to me on that CD due to the lost strings. Saddly it all about the money.
 
Do you understand that this is only remastering, not remixing? Remastering is not really a creative process but preservation onto a different medium, in this case CD.
To change the level of John's guitar track or Paul's vocal (for example) is just not possible even if they wanted to since they are working from the finished 2track or possibly 1 track tape. It's locked in the mix already done 40 or more years ago.
That's not to say that their remastering work is guaranteed to be perfect but they simply dont have the facility to change the mix in any substantial way.

Also the 7 Abbey Road guys that have worked together on this project have all publicly put their names to the work, and stated what roles they played. If they really goofed up as much as you say then their reputations ( or some of them) will now be mud. I suspect they wont be getting any more work in this field.

But the likelihood they did goof up seems to me to be very small.

Again, do you understand that this is only remastering, not remixing?

Cheers Tim
 
Tim Gillett said:
Do you understand that this is only remastering, not remixing? Remastering is not really a creative process but preservation onto a different medium, in this case CD.
To change the level of John's guitar track or Paul's vocal (for example) is just not possible even if they wanted to since they are working from the finished 2track or possibly 1 track tape. It's locked in the mix already done 40 or more years ago.
That's not to say that their remastering work is guaranteed to be perfect but they simply dont have the facility to change the mix in any substantial way.

Also the 7 Abbey Road guys that have worked together on this project have all publicly put their names to the work, and stated what roles they played. If they really goofed up as much as you say then their reputations ( or some of them) will now be mud. I suspect they wont be getting any more work in this field.

But the likelihood they did goof up seems to me to be very small.

Again, do you understand that this is only remastering, not remixing?

Cheers Tim
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there ya' go ....... when I hear someone talking about a guitar being missing from the mix I know they don't really understand this.
 
I remastered this song the other day, and it took all the guitars out and replaced them with trumpets. Weird.
 
Tim Gillett said:
Do you understand that this is only remastering, not remixing? Remastering is not really a creative process but preservation onto a different medium, in this case CD.
To change the level of John's guitar track or Paul's vocal (for example) is just not possible even if they wanted to since they are working from the finished 2track or possibly 1 track tape. It's locked in the mix already done 40 or more years ago.
That's not to say that their remastering work is guaranteed to be perfect but they simply dont have the facility to change the mix in any substantial way.

Also the 7 Abbey Road guys that have worked together on this project have all publicly put their names to the work, and stated what roles they played. If they really goofed up as much as you say then their reputations ( or some of them) will now be mud. I suspect they wont be getting any more work in this field.

But the likelihood they did goof up seems to me to be very small.

Again, do you understand that this is only remastering, not remixing?

Cheers Tim
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Uh gee, lets see,yes I do know the difference thank you.Only been doing it over 30 years.And via mastering and appling eq. or removing certain freq. you can bring our or take away items to a certain degree.Everything hangs around in a specific freq. range....see a frequency chart for yourself.
 
jmorris said:
Uh gee, lets see,yes I do know the difference thank you.Only been doing it over 30 years.And via mastering and appling eq. or removing certain freq. you can bring our or take away items to a certain degree.Everything hangs around in a specific freq. range....see a frequency chart for yourself.
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But only to a certain degree. You're not gonna make a guitar disappear, as some have said, without losing vox and other things that are around that freq.
And I've read plenty of reviews in mags like Stereophile where they have good ears and absolutely no one has said anything like the complaints I've seen in this thread.
I have seen a couple of reviews that said some people might not like these as well as the originals but every review I've read has commented that the differences aren't really that great and so, it might not even be worth buying unless you're a Beatle fanatic and just want anything that's even slightly different.

I've also read several interviews with the guys that did the remastering and they said that they were very aware that they couldn't change the sound very much and therefore didn't.
 
jmorris said:
Uh gee, lets see,yes I do know the difference thank you.Only been doing it over 30 years.And via mastering and appling eq. or removing certain freq. you can bring our or take away items to a certain degree.Everything hangs around in a specific freq. range....see a frequency chart for yourself.
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I didnt suggest you didnt know the difference. I respectfully asked you if you knew the difference. I'm glad you do.

By contrast you imply ("see a frequency chart for yourself") that I dont understand that eq changes can "to a certain degree" bring out instruments.
So why was I careful to add that it's not possible to change the mix "in any substantial way" without recourse to remixing from the multitracks? Because like you I understand that some changes can be made but they are only "to a certain degree" (your words). We are in agreement here.

Back to the Beatles, you imply they have messed with the eq to the point the whole thing sucks. Well they must have gone gangbusters with the eq then. Again, I find that hard to believe. Is your view shared generally?

Cheers Tim
 
I guess my bitch is unless you can make something beter, why screw with it? Having been a BIG Beatles fan all my life I think I have a very good perspective when it comes to this band and how I am used to them sounding. I bought Sgt. Pepper and Abbey Road. Had to go on bit of a road trip so I thought what the hell,I'll check them out while on the trip. So......got my coffee,all set up,pop in Abbey Road CD and hear the first "shoot me" of come together and I was like.....uh?????Kept listening,listening. There a definate change to my ears,not in a good way.I feel the same way about the Let It Be Naked.....whicg of course is a different animal as it "was" remixed. But they both just have a less than mint result. I dont mind remixing or remastering anything if we do it to improve. But when its done for what to me seems to be like another chance to glob on to fans money then I am against that. My best firend called me and said " oh man, have you heard the new remastered Beatles"? I said yeah, they such. He said "really"? He loves them,White Album being his favorite. I just have to wonder if people go on autopilot and interprit "change" as "good" or "better" instead of really listen and making a true choice. Per Les Paul "people hear with their eyes".
 
Yeah, because I obviously eat up everything that has the Beatles brand name :rolleyes:

I was totally skeptical when these came out. They could be better, they could be worse. I didn't want to rebuy the entire discography, especially considering it took me 7 years to get their CD's in the first place (I was in middle school and high school though most of that, plus I'm conservative with cash, so it took me a long time). I read the positive reviews that morning, bought myself Abbey Road nad Past Masters, and liked 'em. I'm probably not gonna get anything else, because its not that much better. But it is better to my ears.
 
something interesting now!

so, while I have been not a fan of the new "remastered" Beatles CD'S. I had purchased Abbey Raod and Pepper, I had to go on a 2 hour trip,was in store,saw more of the cd's and bought Magical Mystery Tour. I have to say, from first tune, I started to heard some nice changes. To my ears nothing like the other two. They had been diminished in certain ways. MMT I heard some nice extra tidbits.Little more cymbal,guitar etc. Makes me wonder if they had good and bad days during this whole remix project.Of course the material itself say or may not lend it self to improvment. But ,I have to say,I do like the remastered MMT. My buddy raves about the White album remsatered. I may have to check that out.
 
Lt. Bob said:
that's the way I remember it as well. They didn't get any 4 track machines for Beatles recording until around Rubber Soul. Prior to that album , they recorded to 2 track machines.
Even Sgt Peppers was only done on 4 track machines (possibly 2 of them synced)
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sorry, I believe.....2 track for first album Please Please Me and a few single recordings after (pristine live recordings of one of the best live bands in rock. Track 1 full band, in some cases. with live vocals, Track 2 Overdubs like Vocals/lead guitar/percussion/piano etc)

4 Track was brought in for some of With The Beatles recordings and onward through some of White Album when they finally were given "permission" to use an 8 track! (By the way, 8 track had been in use in US recording studios for about 4 years at this time!)
 
jmorris said:
so, while I have been not a fan of the new "remastered" Beatles CD'S. I had purchased Abbey Raod and Pepper, I had to go on a 2 hour trip,was in store,saw more of the cd's and bought Magical Mystery Tour. I have to say, from first tune, I started to heard some nice changes. To my ears nothing like the other two. They had been diminished in certain ways. MMT I heard some nice extra tidbits.Little more cymbal,guitar etc. Makes me wonder if they had good and bad days during this whole remix project.Of course the material itself say or may not lend it self to improvment. But ,I have to say,I do like the remastered MMT. My buddy raves about the White album remsatered. I may have to check that out.
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I think you might have had a bad day when you listened to Pepper and Abbey Road! :)

In my opinion, the Remasters are worth every $ 1) I am a huge fan of all their music 2) improvement is significantly better low end clarity (bass and drum parts clearly delineated) and overall resolution/detail.

Now, I will say this: Pepper to me is the most dissapointing of the remasters because the remastering actually allows you to hear that ,IMO, they pushed the 4 track technology over it's limits. Too many reduction mixes were done in the process of recording and that is something that remastering just wont fix, ever.
 
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