recording metal drums

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1sttake studio

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My studio is not that big, about 4m x 5m. when i record loud drums(heavy metal) i have a problem with my cymbals being to dominant in the mix and bleeding through my other mics. what is the best technique to record heavy drums? and get a short decay on my cymbals!!
any advise will be great thanks
 
1sttake studio said:
My studio is not that big, about 4m x 5m. when i record loud drums(heavy metal) i have a problem with my cymbals being to dominant in the mix and bleeding through my other mics. what is the best technique to record heavy drums? and get a short decay on my cymbals!!
any advise will be great thanks
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How are you drums positioned in the room?

Do you have any sound treatment in there?


Bleed is normal. If it's too noticeable, and I don't see how it could be in a metal mix, re-think your mic placements, learn how to use a gate, or use triggered samples.

If you want your cymbals to have a quicker decay, buy new cymbals with quicker decay.
 
1sttake studio said:
My studio is not that big, about 4m x 5m. when i record loud drums(heavy metal) i have a problem with my cymbals being to dominant in the mix and bleeding through my other mics. what is the best technique to record heavy drums? and get a short decay on my cymbals!!
any advise will be great thanks
Click to expand...

A lot times drummers want the biggest loudest cymbals known to man, which may be good in a live setting, but not necessarily in the studio. I agree that you should maybe get different cymbals for studio use (faster decay). Also, it has a lot to do with the drummer's technique. If he's beating the Sh#t out of the hi-hat and cymbals, then they'll probably be really loud in the mix, with a lot of bleed into the snare mic and such. Maybe try easing up on the strength of the hits, and/or maybe putting tape on the cymbals to see if it helps with the decay.
 
Is it the drummer maybe hitting like Animal? Can you get him to not hit the cymbals so hard?

If not, try raising the cymbal stands higher. This will get away from the tom mics and hopefully cut down on the bleed.
 
I usually have the same problem, and most of the suggestions i wouldn't have found that helpfull. I wouldn't ask my brother to play quieter. Some people will say "a drummer is shit if he cant play soft on certain drums/cymbals when asked!", i dont see the logic. They practise hard, gig hard, recording soft isn't a true recording of the song. Also if the drummer you're recording is anything like my drummer, moving the cymbal stands a mm this way or that is unacceptable.

Different cymbals may solve your problem although i don't know anyone who could afford to do this. Mic choice/positioning is deffo worth a shot, as is triggering when its metal. IMO gates dont work for solving excessive bleed. All you get is a horrible dip when the snare mic is gated and the massive loud china suddenly gets much quieter.
 
chamelious said:
most of the suggestions i wouldn't have found that helpfull.
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And what did you offer????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

GregL. said:
Do you have any sound treatment in there?
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This was never answered. Funny how it's probably the most important thing and, yet, it's the one thing that's ignored the most, especially by people starting out.

Also, expecting a drummer to play with dynamics is a basic requirement. If you're smashing your cymbals way harder than you're hitting your snare and toms, you're not "playing hard". You're "playing wrong".
 
chamelious said:
I usually have the same problem, and most of the suggestions i wouldn't have found that helpfull. I wouldn't ask my brother to play quieter. Some people will say "a drummer is shit if he cant play soft on certain drums/cymbals when asked!", i dont see the logic.

.
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That's because you are probably a moron and/or not a drummer. Playing live and recording are two different animals, remember. ;)
 
lollygagger8 said:
Can you get him to not hit the cymbals so hard?
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Jesus christ, this^^^^^^^

If he can't hit the cymbals quieter, then tell him to suck it up because mics just capture the drums the way they sound.

You want it to sound different? Play it different.
 
chamelious said:
Some people will say "a drummer is shit if he cant play soft on certain drums/cymbals when asked!", i dont see the logic.
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I'm not a drummer, but as a guitarist, if I was asked to play softer in order to
make a recording translate better, I'd feel pretty bummed about my skills if I
wasn't able to do so.

It doesn't mean they're shit. But a proper drummer should be able to play loud
when needed, and soft when needed.

I would personally like to know if anybody here can tell me:
a) is loud always better?
b) why?

The answers will hopefully demonstrate my point.

Jesus, just read back over that, I sound really angry...

Sunshine and rainbows :D:D:D:D:D:D
 
Well, I'm not a drummer.

But even I can tell you that the cymbals JUST DON'T sound the SAME if you hit them SOFTLY enough to kill all bleed. Period.

If you're playing Metal, them cymbals are expected to f*cking Explode here and there.
Not "ping--sshhhhhh...."
more like "KASHASHHHHHHH!!!!!"

Drummers I play with, got thick chinas that just won't Scream until they're hit good and strong.
That being said:

-The drummer usually needs to hit harder on other drums, espacially the snare on blastbeats.
-I've used plasticfoam cones on mics to reduce bleeds.
-the room does make a difference, mostly on overheads,though.

I try to pad every mic with plasticfoam (that cheap mattress filling stuff) so they are really pointing only at target, I also put the stuff between toms and such that might rattle against each other.

Dudes,.. every LIVE soundman I've worked with knows that the drummers are NOT going to pace themselves.. That's why they're usually packing:
-some sort of foam mufflers, to be screwed on the stand, on top of the cymbal.
-Ducktape. They tape the shit out of the cymbals. long runs across the cymbals.


:D
 
Jouni said:
Well, I'm not a drummer.

But even I can tell you that the cymbals JUST DON'T sound the SAME if you hit them SOFTLY enough to kill all bleed. Period.

If you're playing Metal, them cymbals are expected to f*cking Explode here and there.
Not "ping--sshhhhhh...."
more like "KASHASHHHHHHH!!!!!"

Drummers I play with, got thick chinas that just won't Scream until they're hit good and strong.
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This is all i meant really. A china is a good example of a cymbal thats hit hard for a reason, its also the cymbal i find causes the most bleed.
 
Jouni said:
But even I can tell you that the cymbals JUST DON'T sound the SAME if you hit them SOFTLY enough to kill all bleed. Period.
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Nobody's arguing that. Nobody said to hit cymbals SOFTLY...and nobody said anything about "killing all bleed". In fact, Greg said this: "Bleed is normal." And it is.

The point being made....by the DRUMMERS in this thread....is that if you're hitting cymbals so much harder than your drums that you can't get a good mix, you have to learn how to play.

The OP didn't answer the questions about room treatment and mic placement either, so there's a good chance he just threw a few shitty mics up in a shitty room, without knowing shit about where to place them, and now he can't understand why it sounds so shitty. :rolleyes:.
 
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Allright.


But as the drummer is probably not going to learn to play "right" in a decent period of time anyway, and a recording must be made:

-Treat the room, a "cloudlike" softmaterial between the cymbals and the roof works somewhat, blankets allover the place, walls and floor. Now that that is done, the overheads might be a tad clearer but we're still getting cymbals on every mic from here to china.
-Use mics that are narrow in their patterns, and muffle them to catch only the drum to be recorded. Think about the placements too, everything pointing away from the cymbals.
- If there is anything that can be triggered, do it.
-Hell, change the cymbals to an electric kit.
-Hell, change everything into an electric kit.
-If the levels are good enough, Drumagog everything you can.

Some of the "br00tal" metal drums are programmed, plain and simple, drummer only works when they're playing live. Believe it.

Damn, the guitarists are taking multiple takes and tracks, whynot just play drums and record the cymbals on a different take? :D
 
Some of the thoughts and opinions in this thread are dumb. YOU CAN'T STOP BLEED! It's a drumkit, people. It's a selection of individual pieces compiled to make one instrument. When you hear drums in real life, it's a barrage of sound. Nothing is isolated. Cymbals wash, toms ring, snares buzz. If you mic the kit correctly, have the room treated decently, and know how to fucking play, bleed won't be a problem in a metal mix. The little bit of bleed picked up by a tom or snare mic (if you mic'd the drums properly) will be inaudible underneath metal guitars and bass. If it just drives you crazy, gate the tracks or use samples. It's not rocket science.
 
Greg_L said:
Some of the thoughts and opinions in this thread are dumb. YOU CAN'T STOP BLEED! It's a drumkit, people. It's a selection of individual pieces compiled to make one instrument. When you hear drums in real life, it's a barrage of sound. Nothing is isolated. Cymbals wash, toms ring, snares buzz. If you mic the kit correctly, have the room treated decently, and know how to fucking play, bleed won't be a problem in a metal mix. The little bit of bleed picked up by a tom or snare mic (if you mic'd the drums properly) will be inaudible underneath metal guitars and bass. If it just drives you crazy, gate the tracks or use samples. It's not rocket science.
Click to expand...

It feels weird actually agreeing with Greg. As he says, "it's not rocket science", but it seems that some want to make it that way, and tie themselves into unncessary technological knots.

An imbalance between cymbals and the rest of the kit is like bowing one string on a fiddle harder than the rest. That string might sound good bowed that way, but it doesn't do the other strings justice.
 
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