Peluso CEMC6 vs. Oktavamod M012?

[tdukex]

...but I would not use the Octava 012 as a "M" mic as its low freq. response can and will emphasise the boxiness of the instrument in that kind of room...

...For classical piano I prefer whether ribbons or small diaphragm true omni mics mostly because of their natural sound qualities...
Best, M

Marik, what about the MK 012 with the omni cap? Would that lessen the low freq response and fit the "true omni" designation? I have one of these and eventually will try it on my Petrof in a similar sized room, comparing it to some Naiant omnis.

 

[Marik]

Ok. I'll keep experimenting with the Pulsars and NT1A. I actually was excited when I played back the recording with NT1A's. It did reduce the shrillness of the upper registers a had a beautiful sound. Only thing is that from a distance, the bass didn't seem to have quite enough definition.

If shrillness and bass are a problem then indeed, you might try a ribbon or an omni for M.

As far as MS goes, my understanding is that the "S" must be a fig 8. And your recommendation is a ribbon fig 8, Unless I buy one, I won't have any comparison. (nowhere to borrow or rent, really.) Can you recommend a not too expensive fig 8 ribbon?

First, you will need to have a proper matrix to "convert" the MS. It can be a hardware, or software ones. For the ribbon my recommendation would be Stellar RM3 (or ACM3), which is a Chinese copy of Royer R121. Normally, for this application I'd use a long ribbon (2") for its more limited pattern in the vertical plane, however, even though those have a medium-long ribbon, because of their long body and hardware obstacles the acoustical properties are closer to the long ribbons.
Another couple ribbons would be Apex205 or 210, however they have lower output, so you will need more clean gain from your pre. Also, their HF response is not as extended.

Also I looked into a SP LSD2. I assume that the figure 8 on it isn't a ribbon, but looks like the set up would be perfect for me. The "M" could be switched to cardioid, omni, or fig 8, so it would give me a lot of options. But then again, it's not a SD omni. which you also recommended. BTW, what is a "true" omni? I know there are a lot a variables here and the bottom line is probably experimenting esp. with mic postion.

To put it into easy terms, the "true" omnies are those, which are built around one sided pressure capsule. The SP LSD2 uses a two-sided capsule, AKA Braunmuhl--Weber design, where the omni pattern achieved by electrical summing of two cardioid patterns.

Marik, what about the MK 012 with the omni cap? Would that lessen the low freq response and fit the "true omni" designation? I have one of these and eventually will try it on my Petrof in a similar sized room, comparing it to some Naiant omnis.

I never had a chance to try the MK012 omni capsule, so Michael Joly could be much more informative here. Generally, I prefer smaller omni diaphragm for their superior HF pattern, such as AKG CK2, CK62, SP C4, and esp. some measurement capsules, such as B&K4133 and Gefell MK221, which are probably the very best omni capsules for sound recording ever made (and price reflects it!). Very small diaphragm mic such as Naiant and some measurement mics can be superb, but potentially might have some noise problems with distant miking, so check that, first, and Mshilarious would be the right person to ask.

Best, M

 

[tdukex]

I never had a chance to try the MK012 omni capsule, so Michael Joly could be much more informative here. Generally, I prefer smaller omni diaphragm for their superior HF pattern, such as AKG CK2, CK62, SP C4, and esp. some measurement capsules, such as B&K4133 and Gefell MK221, which are probably the very best omni capsules for sound recording ever made (and price reflects it!). Very small diaphragm mic such as Naiant and some measurement mics can be superb, but potentially might have some noise problems with distant miking, so check that, first, and Mshilarious would be the right person to ask.

Best, M

Thanks, Marik!

 

[halfred]

If shrillness and bass are a problem then indeed, you might try a ribbon or an omni for M.



First, you will need to have a proper matrix to "convert" the MS. It can be a hardware, or software ones. For the ribbon my recommendation would be Stellar RM3 (or ACM3), which is a Chinese copy of Royer R121. Normally, for this application I'd use a long ribbon (2") for its more limited pattern in the vertical plane, however, even though those have a medium-long ribbon, because of their long body and hardware obstacles the acoustical properties are closer to the long ribbons.
Another couple ribbons would be Apex205 or 210, however they have lower output, so you will need more clean gain from your pre. Also, their HF response is not as extended.

Hi Marik,
Well, the process of "decoding" is to much for me to understand without any "hands on" help here to walk me through it and I won't ask you to explain because you are not running a "recording school" just for me (-:
I was thinking anyway, that even though I plan to follow your suggestion of experimenting more with my NT1A's and Pulsars, I just have a feeling without actual experience, and after reading all that you wrote--- I have a feeling that in the end, what I am going to like best is two fig 8 ribbons in Blumlein config (I'm assuming doesn't need "decoding"--?) If I decide to get a little better mic than the Steller RM3, can you suggest anything else. I was looking online in the 6-700$ range at Byerdynamic 130, AT 4081, Groove tubes Velo 8, Sonotronic Sigma. -----Read the Groove tube has a 2.10" ribbon, didn't find ribbon length in specs for other mics. Back to budget mics, what about the Cascade X-15 stereo mic or Cascade DR 2S? That could really simplify things. Could get mods done I guess on any of the chinese ribbons. Once modded, think there would be any significant difference between them and the mid- price mics I mentioned?


To put it into easy terms, the "true" omnies are those, which are built around one sided pressure capsule. The SP LSD2 uses a two-sided capsule, AKA Braunmuhl--Weber design, where the omni pattern achieved by electrical summing of two cardioid patterns.

OK no LSD2 for me.




I never had a chance to try the MK012 omni capsule, so Michael Joly could be much more informative here. Generally, I prefer smaller omni diaphragm for their superior HF pattern, such as AKG CK2, CK62, SP C4, and esp. some measurement capsules, such as B&K4133 and Gefell MK221, which are probably the very best omni capsules for sound recording ever made (and price reflects it!). Very small diaphragm mic such as Naiant and some measurement mics can be superb, but potentially might have some noise problems with distant miking, so check that, first, and Mshilarious would be the right person to ask.


Best, M

If I decide to go with MS probably not (due to being "tech challenged," and a bit overwhelmed by the process in general), I'll go with the C4's as the "M". However I am considering holding on to the Microtrack as you suggested and looking into preamps instead of an expensive field recorder. Can you suggest a preamp unit that would be best formy purposes under $1000? As far as SPDIF which you mentioned in previous post, I looked into that a little and read that it only supports 16 bit recording. I had spoken with several audio engineers a while ago and they told me whatever I send them needs to be 24 bit. It will be a bit of a puzzle how to operate the recorder, preamps and mics together but I may possibly be able to "muddle" my way through that. If I hold on to my Microtrack, once it is repaired, it might be a better idea to invest what money I have in mics and a good preamp as you implied, rather than to put half of my "eggs" in a field recorder.

Regards,

Hal F.

 

[Marik]

If I decide to go with MS probably not (due to being "tech challenged," and a bit overwhelmed by the process in general), I'll go with the C4's as the "M". However I am considering holding on to the Microtrack as you suggested and looking into preamps instead of an expensive field recorder. Can you suggest a preamp unit that would be best formy purposes under $1000? As far as SPDIF which you mentioned in previous post, I looked into that a little and read that it only supports 16 bit recording. I had spoken with several audio engineers a while ago and they told me whatever I send them needs to be 24 bit. It will be a bit of a puzzle how to operate the recorder, preamps and mics together but I may possibly be able to "muddle" my way through that. If I hold on to my Microtrack, once it is repaired, it might be a better idea to invest what money I have in mics and a good preamp as you implied, rather than to put half of my "eggs" in a field recorder.

Regards,

Hal F.

S/PDIF supports 24bit, so no worries there. For the preamp I'd suggest looking into something like Apogee Mini-Me--right around your budget. This setup should beat socks off something like AD 702, but then again, your main concern is room and mic placement, which can be the weekest links.

For what you are doing I'd use the hardware MS decoder only for monitoring, leaving the final matrix for software in mastering stage. The commercial hardware options are very expensive, esp. passive ones. For custom made ones you can contact me privately.

Best, M

 

[halfred]

S/PDIF supports 24bit, so no worries there. For the preamp I'd suggest looking into something like Apogee Mini-Me--right around your budget. This setup should beat socks off something like AD 702, but then again, your main concern is room and mic placement, which can be the weekest links.

For what you are doing I'd use the hardware MS decoder only for monitoring, leaving the final matrix for software in mastering stage. The commercial hardware options are very expensive, esp. passive ones. For custom made ones you can contact me privately.

Best, M

Thanks Marik. I think I'll get the Apogee. Would that be the Mini -DAC, the Mini me MP and the Mini me DAC seem to be dicontinued although I did see a Mini Me and Mini Me MP with jacked up price. ---($1100)

The NT1A's actually sound pretty great and no detectable noise even with the microtrack preamps. They smooth out the sound of the Steinway and mask the imperfections really well. If I can find a positon for one of the mics to produce a little more clarity in the bass withoiut picking up some mechanical noise, the buck could stop with the NT1A's. However, I'm pretty excited about trying out Blumlien with the two Stellar ribbons that you mentioned. If I give them a try and like the sound better, would it be worth my while to have the Stellars modded? Also, any opinion on some of the mid-price fig 8 ribbons? I spotted four of them--Groove Tubes Velo 8, AT 4081, Byerdynamic 130, and Sonatronics Sigma. Would they add any significant difference over modded Stellars, which would still be half the price of two of the mid range mics. Any opinion on the Cascade x-15 or Sonotronics Apollo for my purposes ? (already set up for "Blumein-- would be a help)
One more question and that will be all for now (promise)---practically speaking, how do high quality preamps impact the sound of the recording? Thanks in advance!

Hal

 

[Shadow_7]

High end preamps tend to preserve clarity. Provide the proper phantom power to mics that are picky about that. While delivering a result with a lower noise floor so that when you mix a lot of channels it doesn't sound like it was live at niagra falls. But it's all subjective as well. Some low end preamps do some / most of that. And some high end ones can color the sound. Sometimes good, sometimes not, depending on what you're trying to do. Factor in brand / reliability / customer service / and other factors.

 

[halfred]

Thanks. I'll be anxious to here how my mics sound with the Apogee vs. the microtrack preamps. Can't be anything but better I would imagine. I'm sure I'll like any type of improvement. My ear of course is not as fine tuned to differences as say an audio engineer or any version thereof. Just looking for something I'm relatively happy with.