nOOb question about how to record singing at a decent quality

[Disease8]

Yes

I agree with Glen too actually...
Nice one..
(not that anybody cares what a noob with a bad rep has to say)

 

[Steenamaroo]

No, I actually stole that name from another product sold in the 80s; the Shatner2k was a combination industrial-strength steel wool pot scrubber and hairpiece.

G.

that was my attempt at humour....lol


disease, i'm sure plenty of people care...

as i just posted on another thread, my guess is people take issue with the way in which things are said, more so than what is actually said....


ffs..when i'm replying to a post, i find myself having to take more time to be sure that no one can misconstrue what i'm saying and start an argument over it, than i actually take constructing the response. sad times we live in.

 

[kcearl]

that was my attempt at humour....lol


disease, i'm sure plenty of people care...

as i just posted on another thread, my guess is people take issue with the way in which things are said, more so than what is actually said....


ffs..when i'm replying to a post, i find myself having to take more time to be sure that no one can misconstrue what i'm saying and start an argument over it, than i actually take constructing the response. sad times we live in.

what the hell are you trying to say now!!!!

 

[Disease8]

hahahahahahahahahahahah

 

[Steenamaroo]

lmao,,,,i don't know, but i'm prepared to fight over it!!!

 

[kcearl]

to the thunderdome!!

 

[Steenamaroo]

aww man, they shud totally do that!

 

[miroslav]

First, not everyone who is a "home recorder" is a kid in their bedroom with no money and no talent; "home recording" simply means self-recording, which covers a wide gamut of people from college students in dorm rooms to seasoned musicians building their own pro-grade studios in a new room addition on their house.

..............

So let's climb down off that false "this is only home recording" high-horse and understand that folks like John (Massive Master) and the rest know what they are talking about and are here for a reason; and that reason sure ain't because they're have fun by answering the same newb questions over and over and over again. They're here because those questions need correct answers.

I have to agree with Glen…over the years I’ve read the same noob questions over and over and over on different forums (I was a noob once too, many years ago) and there is a certain level of frustration on both the noob side and on the side of the pros trying to help.

First off, when a noob begins a question with comments like “something cheap” or “not looking to do serious recordings” or “it’s just for fun”…etc, etc, etc...but then ends the sentence by saying he wants “good quality” or to “have it sound pro quality” or asks how to “get that better vocal/instrument sound”….
…often it’s pretty much a contradiction right from the git-go!

That’s like assuming that there are two ways to get the same great recordings…“cheap-n-half-assed” or “expensive-n-involved”, and that the pros just prefer to go the more difficult/expensive way because they are masochists…and now they want to be mean to the noobs and make them suffer too!

I think the majority of times, the main reason noobs are so skeptical and reluctant to many pro suggestions is…MONEY…or lack of it.
Yeah, when all you have is $100 to spend on a preamp, it’s very EASY to talk yourself into believing that it sounds really good, or when you have little or no understanding of good recording techniques, it’s very EASY to look for the line of least resistance and convince yourself that your naïve, noob approach will yield the same results.

What some noobs don’t seem to understand is that the more experienced guys have a reason for saying what they say. It’s not about making you jump through hoops and making your recording experience unpleasant…rather, it’s about teaching you the *correct* way to do things…and YEAH…it can be a drawn out process at times, and yeah, it can cost some serious $$$ to get past the point of *so-so sound* (even if you are just doing it for fun).
But that whole Q&A process can be especially frustrating when some noob is chompin-at-the-bit to lay down some tracks, even though he has ZERO experience in how to go about doing it and little or wrong gear to do it with and no $$$ to improve it. He just wants a fast/cheap solution and any other answers he gets are often met with surprise, bewilderment and most of all…denial!

I usually try to help noobs as much as possible, and will try and give the most detailed answers that I can…but I’ve learned that when someone is in deep denial, the best approach is to just let them hit their head against the wall until it hurts enough for them to stop…and eventually, they will learn through trial and error.
I think for some folks…that is the “best” way for them...sometimes you just have to find out the hard way before you can believe.
I know...I lived in denail about a lot of stuff in the beginning...I still have some bumps where I hit my head back in the day!

 

[kcearl]

I hate to beat a dead horse but if I could borrow your stick for a moment

1. No one anywhere is saying that cheap gear sounds as good as professional gear

2. No one is suggesting not buying the best that you can afford

3. No one is suggesting that the worldy sages know less than mere mortals....thats experience of course they do...but its hard to respect attitude sometimes

4. There is obviously a wide range of users on this forum from all levels so the "one attitude for all" will not work...not all of us want lead by the nose to top professional levels..well not yet thats for sure

but..

I spend little, enjoying what I do...I will upgrade when and where I find it necessary..I spend to a budget which I research and control as tightly as possible, (I havent worked for two years)..I am prolly not alone in some of this

Now if every noob is going to met met with coy, fishing, drag them out of their shell posts..well I dont think they'll give up making music but I wonder how many give up with this forum?

Maybe some of you experienced guys need to rethink why exactly you come here..is for bragging rights? is it to help? for sense of community? a place to show your skills? to nurture talents that resembled yours at some point? or to bounce about forums with your chests puffed out leaping to each others defence?

because you have to wonder...

 

[miroslav]

I dunno...I read through all three pages and saw that you also tossed out quite a bit of "attitude", and in a few comments suggested out-of hand that certain cheap/crappy gear could be the solution to the OP’s problem...plus you made some rather generic “myth” comments about tube gear…
...and then when some folks pointed out that fallacy, you got more aggressive with your comments, and now you're still being rather snooty with the "worldly sages" and "mere mortals" comments.

Most of the guys that post on the Recording/Mixing/Mastering forums are not "worldly sages"...but then, most have gotten well beyond the noob stage and so their posts will reflect their hard-earned experience.
Personally, I come to these forums to interact with THOSE guys, and not so much some noob asking about which end of the mic he should sing into or some such thing. There's a Newbie forum for interacting with noobs.
That said...I will repeat it one more time...the more experienced guys are trying to give the best answer possible even to the noobs, and NOT just the cheapest/easiest answer.
When you ask a question on an open forum...you can't expect to only get the answers you want to hear or will accept as valid.

Not sure how much experience you have and what your recording background is like...but you would do better to make friends with some of the guys here that seem to know their shit…rather than pander to an audience of noobs with continued digs at the more “worldly sages”.

Anyway….I’ll try to step back out of this thread now…’cuz the US Open 4th round finals are on and have MUCH better tennis than this thread!

 

[Richard Monroe]

I have to agree with Glen…over the years I’ve read the same noob questions over and over and over on different forums (I was a noob once too, many years ago) and there is a certain level of frustration on both the noob side and on the side of the pros trying to help.

First off, when a noob begins a question with comments like “something cheap” or “not looking to do serious recordings” or “it’s just for fun”…etc, etc, etc...but then ends the sentence by saying he wants “good quality” or to “have it sound pro quality” or asks how to “get that better vocal/instrument sound”….
…often it’s pretty much a contradiction right from the git-go!

That’s like assuming that there are two ways to get the same great recordings…“cheap-n-half-assed” or “expensive-n-involved”, and that the pros just prefer to go the more difficult/expensive way because they are masochists…and now they want to be mean to the noobs and make them suffer too!

I think the majority of times, the main reason noobs are so skeptical and reluctant to many pro suggestions is…MONEY…or lack of it.
Yeah, when all you have is $100 to spend on a preamp, it’s very EASY to talk yourself into believing that it sounds really good, or when you have little or no understanding of good recording techniques, it’s very EASY to look for the line of least resistance and convince yourself that your naïve, noob approach will yield the same results.

What some noobs don’t seem to understand is that the more experienced guys have a reason for saying what they say. It’s not about making you jump through hoops and making your recording experience unpleasant…rather, it’s about teaching you the *correct* way to do things…and YEAH…it can be a drawn out process at times, and yeah, it can cost some serious $$$ to get past the point of *so-so sound* (even if you are just doing it for fun).
But that whole Q&A process can be especially frustrating when some noob is chompin-at-the-bit to lay down some tracks, even though he has ZERO experience in how to go about doing it and little or wrong gear to do it with and no $$$ to improve it. He just wants a fast/cheap solution and any other answers he gets are often met with surprise, bewilderment and most of all…denial!

I usually try to help noobs as much as possible, and will try and give the most detailed answers that I can…but I’ve learned that when someone is in deep denial, the best approach is to just let them hit their head against the wall until it hurts enough for them to stop…and eventually, they will learn through trial and error.
I think for some folks…that is the “best” way for them...sometimes you just have to find out the hard way before you can believe.
I know...I lived in denail about a lot of stuff in the beginning...I still have some bumps where I hit my head back in the day!

Well said, Miroslav!-Richie

 

[kcearl]

I dunno...I read through all three pages and saw that you also tossed out quite a bit of "attitude", and in a few comments suggested out-of hand that certain cheap/crappy gear could be the solution to the OP’s problem...plus you made some rather generic “myth” comments about tube gear…
...and then when some folks pointed out that fallacy, you got more aggressive with your comments, and now you're still being rather snooty with the "worldly sages" and "mere mortals" comments.

Most of the guys that post on the Recording/Mixing/Mastering forums are not "worldly sages"...but then, most have gotten well beyond the noob stage and so their posts will reflect their hard-earned experience.
Personally, I come to these forums to interact with THOSE guys, and not so much some noob asking about which end of the mic he should sing into or some such thing. There's a Newbie forum for interacting with noobs.
That said...I will repeat it one more time...the more experienced guys are trying to give the best answer possible even to the noobs, and NOT just the cheapest/easiest answer.
When you ask a question on an open forum...you can't expect to only get the answers you want to hear or will accept as valid.

Not sure how much experience you have and what your recording background is like...but you would do better to make friends with some of the guys here that seem to know their shit…rather than pander to an audience of noobs with continued digs at the more “worldly sages”.

Anyway….I’ll try to step back out of this thread now…’cuz the US Open 4th round finals are on and have MUCH better tennis than this thread!

yup toss in a grenade then wander off

Pray tell me what were the OPs problems?

You guys keep claiming different points from what was asked or what was suggested?? < confused >

I never read any problems just a post asking for cheap...dare I say it again "cheap" suggestions..

And yes I gave some attitude, I tend to when folks give me some...as you are now, regardless of your experience, post count, profession et al...

Enjoy the golf..

 

[kcearl]

Well said, Miroslav!-Richie

cheerleader

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Since when is being a worldly sage a bad thing?

It seems to me that the only folks trying to show off in this forum are those that are anxious to give advice on subjects about which they are neither experienced or educated.

And most of those "sages" are not so stupid or vain as to suggest that some dorm recorder has to go out and buy a $3000 Neumann mic or a $2000 Chandler preamp, but they do know enough to know that when a beginner wants something to sound like that, it ain't quite gonna happen with an MXL 990 and a mAudio FastTrack.

And because it's the "sages" that have to be the messengers of that bad news to the newbs, because - God knows - the people at Mashall and Digidesign sure aren't going to volunteer that information, that they get ragged upon for raining on the newb fantasy parade.

The biggest problem the experienced folks have around here is managing the expectations of the less experienced. There's a still-busy and very popular poll on this forum called "Home Recording's Ditry Little Secret". In fact I just noticed, kcearl, that you know all about it. By that poll, only 4 out of 10 people vising this forum did not expect to get "from the get-go, high end commercial recordings". That leaves 6 out of 10 who either did expect it, or didn't bother considering the question until after the fact.

That's a whole lot of bad news to be delivered and expectations to be managed. If anything, give the "sages" credit for having the guts to stick it out here against those odds for as long as they do.

G.

 

[kcearl]

Since when is being a worldly sage a bad thing?

It seems to me that the only folks trying to show off in this forum are those that are anxious to give advice on subjects about which they are neither experienced or educated.

And most of those "sages" are not so stupid or vain as to suggest that some dorm recorder has to go out and buy a $3000 Neumann mic or a $2000 Chandler preamp, but they do know enough to know that when a beginner wants something to sound like that, it ain't quite gonna happen with an MXL 990 and a mAudio FastTrack.

And because it's the "sages" that have to be the messengers of that bad news to the newbs, because - God knows - the people at Mashall and Digidesign sure aren't going to volunteer that information, that they get ragged upon for raining on the newb fantasy parade.

The biggest problem the experienced folks have around here is managing the expectations of the less experienced. There's a still-busy and very popular poll on this forum called "Home Recording's Ditry Little Secret". In fact I just noticed, kcearl, that you know all about it. By that poll, only 4 out of 10 people vising this forum did not expect to get "from the get-go, high end commercial recordings". That leaves 6 out of 10 who either did expect it, or didn't bother considering the question until after the fact.

That's a whole lot of bad news to be delivered and expectations to be managed. If anything, give the "sages" credit for having the guts to stick it out here against those odds for as long as they do.

G.

Again..where did I say being a sage or experienced was a bad thing?


Is English the second language of the forum?

because some of you appear to be struggling with its written form

 

[Steenamaroo]

kcearl....

¿Por qué crees que experimenta es una mala cosa?

 

[kcearl]

kcearl....

¿Por qué crees que experimenta es una mala cosa?

hahaha

good one

Creo que la arrogancia es

 

[Steenamaroo]

careful! lol

 

[miroslav]

yup toss in a grenade then wander off

.........

I never read any problems just a post asking for cheap...dare I say it again "cheap" suggestions..

And yes I gave some attitude, I tend to when folks give me some...as you are now, regardless of your experience, post count, profession et al...

I'm not wandering off...but discretion is the better part of valor.

While I do agree that you were the one who offered up the "cheap" suggestions to the OP...
...the "worldly sages" were looking more at the "big picture", something that might provide more permanent solutions and better understanding.
Maybe I’m wrong, but from your last line above...I get the feeling that you don't have very much respect for anything other than your own opinions, which is certainly one way to go, though I think here, on these particular forums, a noob audience may be the only one that will applaud them.

I have no desire to keep going back-n-forth with you, rather I was just pointing out that you've also done your part to be snooty and full of attitude, so it’s rather hypocritical for you to be attacking the “worldly sages”…. …not to mention, trying to sift through the whole thread about who-said-what-first is pointless, since you also appear to be of the belief that all the "worldly sages" are just trying to give noobs a hard time, and little else...
…and IMO, therein lies the fallacy of your attitude.
I'll be honest...there is really nothing that you've said in this thread that was of any real bonafied value/help to the noob....you just tossed out a couple of equipment suggestions, which most anyone can do. So don’t be so quick to take a bow!

How about everyone just takes a step back and focuses more on the actual point that is being made about "cheap/easy" approaches instead of who-said-what….?
I think THAT is where the real answers are.
AFA the OP...I don't think he's really sure all that much about anything that he is doing (and I don't mean that disrespectfully)...so just tossing out equipment suggestions won't solve any of his problems or answer his questions. He could get that advice from dozens of "cheap" ads in most audio magazines...which is the point Glen was just making.
Do we want fantasy or reality (in recording)?

How about some beers all the way around….

 

[Jakedafake]

Do we want fantasy or reality (in recording)?

Don't worry about what a piece of gear costs use your ears and then decide. Some cheap gear sounds fantastic. Its more about how you use it than about how much it costs.

I have a cheap ass Leem active Di-Box that makes my bass sound way way better than through my BSS AR-133 which costs 6 times the price. I must say however that the BSS is very well made and is used by many pros but IMO I think it sounds dull and lifeless.