Frequency question about a desk with no freq??

[Barry B]

Morning All,

The desk in question is the Yamaha EMX 2300.

For those of you that don't know the desk it's a 12 channel desk with bass, mids and highs and pan knobs. There is no freq knob.

Hypothetically as this situation hasn't come up when I've been attempting to mix some songs. But what or how do you cope with 2 competing frequencies in a song where you don't have the abillity to play with the frequency?

The reason I ask is that on my Korg HD which I was originally using to mix songs on. There was a frequency setting/dial that I could turn. What I assume this did from the my understanding and listening to a sound was that it would in effect shift a sound up and down the frequency scale and at the right point it would just ''sound'' right. I backed this thinking up by reading up on the common frequencies that certain instruments tend to sit in. ie the bass kick is usually 100hz. I'd sweep the dial with my eyes closed and it would usually sound good in that range. Open my eyes and it was in the 100hz range. First off I suppose, is this the correct way of doing things? The reason I stopped using the korg for anything other than vocals is that its low end is pretty rubbish for rap music.

I was given the Yamaha from a friend of a friend and like the sound I have from this desk but am thinking ahead of myself in the event I have some instruments that are competeing for frequency and panning isn't enough.

I've read a few things on frequency but nothing this specific. So my question is how would some of you deal with this situation? (assuming I understand frequencies correctly).

 

[legionserial]

For those of you that don't know the desk it's a 12 channel desk with bass, mids and highs and pan knobs. There is no freq knob.

Not many things have a 'frequency knob'. Actually it sounds similar to the 'tone knob you get on some tape recorders etc. The bass, mids, and high knobs are your rudimentary EQ and with some twiddling proive a similar function, albeit with more versatility than a single knob. It probably won't, however, be as versatile a something like multiband EQ, or even better, a parametric EQ....you could maybe invest in an outboard one of these...I assume you aren't using a computer much in your chain?

Moving a frequency knob or using EQ doesn't shift a sound up and down the frequency scale per se. It's more that it boosts the frequency you're looking for, or cuts the rest a bit. Again, a parametric EQ would give you phenominally more versatility in doing this, as you can make several cuts and boosts, on different ranges of the spectrum, to the one sound.

As for frequencies. Personally I couldn't tell off the top of my head exactly what sits where on the frequency scale. I don't pay a lot of attention to the numbers, I have a rough idea, and I use my ears for the rest. Your mention of shutting your eyes and listening...that's how I tend to mix. I mean, in reality it's how it sound that's important. The numbers don't matter if it sounds good.

 

[Barry B]

Okay that makes sense and clears up a little of my confusion. I'm in an office 9-5 and dj most weekends so time spent mixing is quite minimal I try reading up on some things here and there and one day happened to stumble across a frequency chart that was interesting and gave me a basis to work around.

As for computers. No I don't use one other then for recording a two tracked song into as a wav file. I use an Akai for the sequencing and making of a song. The korg for vocals and have been lucky to have been given a few things via friends of friends such as the Yamaha desk and some mics and pre amps and stuff. I've also got a reel to reel but haven't introduced that to the setup as I want to understand the gear I have some more first. I kind of like working like this as it is a glorified hobby. That and I'm a moron with computers

To be honest its not been a problem so far. I noticed it a few times on the HD recorder as that only had a low of 100hz and the bass notes and bass kicks were often competing for space. I'd end up twisting the bass kick so that would ''sit'' a bit ''higher'' in the mix but it was far from perfect. I was just curious on how to deal with it in the future if the situation arose.

 

[legionserial]

To be honest its not been a problem so far. I noticed it a few times on the HD recorder as that only had a low of 100hz and the bass notes and bass kicks were often competing for space. I'd end up twisting the bass kick so that would ''sit'' a bit ''higher'' in the mix but it was far from perfect. I was just curious on how to deal with it in the future if the situation arose.

Bass notes and the kick have a tendancy to fight with each other. I make a lot of death metal with double kicks whizzing away etc, so it's definitely an issue I come across more often than not. I tend to use some kind of rudimentary sidechain compression for that, aswell as parallel compression. I not sure what kit you have re:compression though, so I won't go into too much detail, unless you're interested.

 

[dgatwood]

My guess would be that a frequency knob is for a parametric EQ---probably sweepable midrange.

Q - width of the frequency band
frequency - center frequency of the frequency band
mid/level/dB - how much to bring the frequency band up or down

 

[dintymoore]

You went from a system with a selectable mid frequency eq to a system with a fixed frequency mid eq. Parametric mid to non-parametric mid.

It's normal not to like it, because the majority of the problems are in the mids. If you looked at the specs on the Yamaha you'd probably see what the fixed frequencies of the three eq knobs are. Having a fixed mid control generally sucks and that's what you are experiencing.

I use the eq on Cubase and I like it. You could go to using a computer, find another board, use an outboard eq for tracks that are a problem, or just live with it.

I don't think too many people will be happy with an eq that doesn't have a parmetric (sweepable, selective frequency) mid, although the best stuff seems to need very little eq anyways and if you don't have a problem then just keep goin'.

 

[Barry B]

Bass notes and the kick have a tendancy to fight with each other. I make a lot of death metal with double kicks whizzing away etc, so it's definitely an issue I come across more often than not. I tend to use some kind of rudimentary sidechain compression for that, aswell as parallel compression. I not sure what kit you have re:compression though, so I won't go into too much detail, unless you're interested.

If you wouldn't mind. Even if its just a basic break down of what it is that would be nice. I'm googling some side chain reading at the moment.

I've done a bit of reading on parrallel compression and am recording my first set of vocals this weekend as it goes and was going to try out that technique and see how it sounds.

Compression wise I have a (was given didn't buy) a Behringer compressor the Joe Meek one I think. I've never used it to be honest and the Korg has various compression settings.

I suppose. Assuming the frequencies that are fighting for position are above the 100hz range as in not a bass kick or bass line then I can record them into the Korg and use the sweep function there and then run a 2 line out to the desk if need be. I might do that.

But yeah any simple explanation would be much appreciated. It'll help with my understanding of things.