Do I need to tweak this lyric?

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Strat1958

Strat1958

Late-blooming songwriter!
I have recorded the backing tracks for this song, but before I lay down the vocals, I want to bounce the lyrics off of you folks.

It was inspired by a newspaper article I read recently about helping the homeless. A lot of them choose this life and don't want to be helped.

It's a blues shuffle, along the lines of Clapton's unplugged "Layla".

Thanks in advance.

-Mike


I Want To Be Here
Copyright 2009 by Mike Pilling

[V1]
‘I want to be here’, he said to me
‘Really not looking for a break’
‘Why won’t you people just let me be
‘Not everyone wants to be saved’
I want to understand but I don’t get it
So I grab my coffee and forget it

[V2]
‘I want to be here’, she said to me
As she stood in line for her meal
‘I’m happy and free of responsibility
The friends around me are real’
I think she wants to be left alone
Wants to live a life unknown

[CHORUS]
Feel good when we try to help
Tell them what they should do
If they only had a bit more drive
They could start anew
We want to keep our conscience clear
But I can still hear her saying
I want to be here
I want to be here

[SOLO, follows structure of the Verse]

[CHORUS]

.
 
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Seems abrubt to me Mike. It comes out of nowhere.

For example “I want to be here’”

Well if “here” is the beach then yea me too. Where is here and why do you want to be here?

There are a lot of statements with no context, so it leaves one confused. What the hell is going on?

Since there is a he and a her mentioned in the verses I would change the line

But I can still hear her saying
to
But I can still hear them saying

Your introduction post gives us background but none of that is in the song. See my point? Tell your story.

HTH
 
Thanks Manslick! What I was shooting for was to make the listener wonder in the first verse, which reflects exactly what you said - where is "here" and why do you "want to be here"? Then I offer a bit more in the 2nd (standing in line for a meal). "Oh, it's about homeless people".... Then reveal all in the chorus.

Thanks for your feedback, I do appreciate it, and will consider all comments before committing it to tape.

-Mike
 
To my mind, Strat, it's a bit too direct. I'd make the references a bit more oblique. But every brain will perceive it differently!

Also, you're setting perception by your explanation, before the lyric is read, which defeats your objective in gaining non pre-conceived opinion, to some extent. Maybe!

Nice theme for a song btw. :)
 
I stood in line for a meal at Qdoba the other day. So I’m homeless?

I appreciate your intention to make people wonder and with this lyric I am sure they will.

But in this day and age I doubt many people will think twice if the subject matter is more than a millimeter thick.

What I meant by tell your story is something along the lines of the first line in A Day In The Life – I read the news today, oh boy.

I think your story is much more interesting than what you think these homeless people are feeling.

But it seems you have things in motion so I wish you all the luck.
 
Hmmm, all very good points - you guys have got me to thinking.

Thank you!
 
One more thought..

The Way It Is - Bruce Hornsby

Standing in line marking time, waiting for the welfare dime
'Cause they can't buy a job
The man in the silk suit hurries by as he catches the poor ladies' eyes
Just for fun he says "get a job"

Here is a great example of clarity. The term “welfare dime” says a ton and makes the preceding reference to “Standing in line” very clear.

If you tweaked the line “As she stood in line for her meal” so we know it’s a bread line then all the ambiguity goes away.

I think that is you challenge – to clarify it and still maintain the meter and rhyme scheme.
 
OK......here's a tweak.

[V2]
‘I want to be here’, she said to me
Soup kitchen dealin' her a meal
‘I’m happy and free of responsibility
The friends around me are real’
I think she wants to be left alone
Wants to live a life unknown

The line gives a visual (dealing out meals like dealing a deck of cards) as well as taking a swing at one of the symbols of excess (Richard Simmons' "Deal-A-Meal").

Just an idea.
 
Strat1958 said:
OK......here's a tweak.

[V2]
‘I want to be here’, she said to me
Soup kitchen dealin' her a meal
‘I’m happy and free of responsibility
The friends around me are real’
I think she wants to be left alone
Wants to live a life unknown

The line gives a visual (dealing out meals like dealing a deck of cards) as well as taking a swing at one of the symbols of excess (Richard Simmons' "Deal-A-Meal").

Just an idea.
Click to expand...

"It's just an idea", you say . . . and it's probably best left that way.

I read your original set of lyrics, and the meaning jumped out at me straight away.

Perhaps abrupt, as the others note . . . but not disturbingly so (at least to me).

The Bruce Hornsby example is really skillful writing . . . we should be all as good!

But . . . I would much rather have your original set of lyrics rather than the tweaked version. In my view, it makes it too obvious, and takes away from the mystery of the piece. I am in favour of ambiguity laced with signposting hints, but for that to work, the hints need to be whispered ('welfare dime') rather than shouted ('soup kitchen'). You could make this a whisper by saying 'soup ladle' instead.

You've got a pretty reasonable set of lyrics there, and I'd be interested in hearing them in context.
 
I think the tweak is too contrived, too cute. I get it but it's almost like you're trying too hard to be hip.

By giving us the back story at the onset makes it hard to be truly objective and now with all the discussion it's impossible.

I still think that the original lyric as is would not lead me to picture a homeless person who wants to be homeless. And frankly I don't find it all that interesting. They're bums. End of story.

What piques my curiosity is your need to write about it. To me that is the story.
 
Welllll......

Where I live, there are advocacy groups that run soup kitchens, winter coat collections, food banks, toys for kids, yada yada yada.

A large group of the homeless people feel as if this is being forced on them, and just want to be left alone to live on the street. It's a lifestyle choice. But the advocacy groups want to feed them, clothe them, fix their teeth, find them a job.

The article in the paper was about that, and I found it interesting, because I had never thought of it.
 
Strat1958 said:
[CHORUS]
Feel good when we try to help
Tell them what they should do
If they only had a bit more drive
They could start anew
We want to keep our conscience clear
But I can still hear her saying
I want to be here
I want to be here
Click to expand...

To me the word "anew" sounds cheezy and makes me think of "a Gnu"

gnu.jpg
 
Hey Mike, I understand about advocacy groups. We have them here too.

I don’t know you and maybe you know a lot of homeless people or maybe you’ve been homeless yourself and if so then you have a unique perspective on the subject.

But if you’re like me, all I know is that I see them from time to time on the off ramp holding a sign. I sometimes give them money. I read things in the news. When I was a paper boy I delivered papers to a room full of homeless guys sleeping on cots at the Salvation Army – a very weird scene.

I pulled off the highway one day in the rain. There was the guy at the bottom and I got caught right at the light and he’s right there all wet holding the “help me” sign. Well hell I figured I’d give him some cash. Pull out my wallet and all I had was 20s. Well I got real self conscious because I knew the people behind me could see I had fished out my wallet so I give the guy a 20. I pull off and see my UK umbrella on the floor board and think “shit” why didn’t I give that to him. (I’m a UL fan see?)

None of this gives me the idea I know anything about homeless people. I can’t imagine trying to find a dry place to sleep in Chicago in January.

Yea I’m an asshole for saying they’re bums because that’s just a stereo type and not very humanitarian and I said that for shock effect.

The first rule of writing or maybe it’s the second rule, is to write what you know.

What you’re doing is making up a fictitious scenario and even adding dialog to go with it. I mean, if you dreamed this up from reading an article then it’s a sham.
The first line - did he really say to YOU ‘I want to be here’? Do you really know what you’re talking about?

What you do know is how the article made you feel. So rather than invent a first person fictitious scenario, relate your true first person impressions and feelings. You can always add your imaginary situations and better yet add your real life experiences with the homeless – go work at a shelter for a week and see if your perspective changes.

A subject like homelessness deserves more than a quick spin off from a magazine article. I would bet that for every homeless person who wants to be homeless there are two that don’t.

That’s all I’m saying. Write what you know.

Sorry if I am off base on my assumptions as like I said, I don’t know you.
 
Well I've never been homeless, even when I was a starving musician back in the late 70s. :)

There are a ton of shitty songs played on the radio, and one of the things that released me from my inability to write, was that exact realization. I can write a song and it doesn't have to be perfect.

I do appreciate the time you took to help; thank you.

I ain't no Bruce Springsteen, but I like his approach to songwriting:

"The mistake is to start thinking that you are your songs. To me a song is a vision, a flash: I see characters and situations." (Springsteen, 1974)

"All I do, like, I write down my impressions of stuff, like, and what I see, you know."(Springsteen, 1975)

"The songs I write, they don't have particular beginnings and they don't have endings. The camera focuses in and then out." (Springsteen, 1980)
 
Yea it is easy - Here is a quick write I did this morning - it uses the bait and switch method.


The Bum

A tall dark man stood at a paper stand
His sign was crude, said I will work for food
His arms appeared strong and were well tattooed
His jeans were so clean, both feet were well shoed.

I had the need for some work to be done
A cot and a hot and it don't pay a ton
I rolled down the glass and cautiously asked
Hey got a minute and then we were in it

He said
Damn life is tough when you aint got enough
The man keeps me down I think I might drown
In a sea of red tape I will never escape
Thanks for the chance but now give me your pants

I thought this is bull shit and might just be it
When I pulled them down he made a sad frown
And he said I renege when he saw my peg leg
He changed his demand and went back to the stand

Some got it bad and then some got it worse
So I pulled a saw buck from outta my purse
I gave it to him and said have a good day
Manned the controls and went off on my way.
 
I think the chorus is too patronising
Could look at it from another angle
Or you're coming across to self righteous
Put yourself in their shoes and express your feelings as opposed to theirs.

Verses are great as they are.
 
There are some interesting comments throughout this thread.

There are things that I agree with, and things that make me nervous.

I agree with the idea that "The first rule of writing or maybe it’s the second rule, is to write what you know". But perhaps for different reasons. I think Manslick was coming from the direction of credibility. But my reason is more practical . . . it's just so much easier to write about what you know than what you have to make up.

In truth, I am not too concerned about credibility. As a writer, my words might be more 'real' and might possess a greater punch if I've actually experienced the thing I'm writing about. But someone one else would also have to experience the same thing to be able to convey that impression vocally, and then the audience would too have to experience it to appreciate it.

Well, sometimes it happens that way. But a lot of times it doesn't. As a performer of someone else's material, I don't really have access to a writer's experiences or thought processes, so I interpret the song on the basis of mine. And each member of the listening audience does the same. As a writer I can make up gibberish . . . little bits cut from the newspaper and stuck together ("I read the the news today"). That gibberish may resonate very strongly with some people, because it has been assembled in such a way that makes it highly amenable to personal interpretation.

What makes me nervous is the assumption that reading something in an article misses the mark; that it is somehow not as real (i.e. a 'sham') as if you were to "go work at a shelter for a week". I think a reaction to an article (or a story we've read, or a performance we've heard) is as valid a theme for a song as a reaction to an actual experience.

I think Manslick acknowedges that with "What you do know is how the article made you feel. So rather than invent a first person fictitious scenario, relate your true first person impressions and feelings." However, I'm ready to accept that the invented first person scenario is in fact a reflection of "first impressions and feelings".

The reason why I am going on about this is because I see too much of it . . . not in songwriting, but in society in general, where groups will claim that they must be represented by a member of their group because no-one from outside can possibly share their experiences. In a sense they are right, but in another sense they are dead wrong. One wrongness is in assuming that all members of the group will feel the same, when, of course, each of us is unique, and this idea of 'shared experiences' is largely illusory.

I liked Manslick's quick job of coming up with his lyrics. Very fine writing, I have to say, acknowledging though, that it is as shallow as what is being presumed for the lyrics being critiqued. Nevertheless, I can easily imagine it being performed and appreciated by many people.

I note cybergord's view that the chorus is 'too patronising' or 'self-righteous'. That's a legitimate interpretation. However, I read the lyrics differently and my personal translation was "We feel good when we think we are helping people . . . but some of them just want to be left alone", and I don't see that as patronising or self-righteous, but more as a pointed barb directed at well-intentioned meddlers.
 
GZ, as always, you present a great observation of the goings-on of the thread.

What strikes me about the discussion so far is the fact that my lyrics have been taken a bunch of different ways. That's cool.

The chorus is definitely not meant to be patronizing - it is as GZ says, a jab at those who try to tell others how they should live.

Just a comment on "the first rule of songwriting". I thought there were no "rules" in songwriting. Maybe a few guidelines, but I don't believe in hard and fast rules. I am a rank amateur, an absolute newbie when it comes to songwriting - but I know what I like in others' songs, and a lot of them play fast and loose with "the rules". Songs with no chorus. Songs that are 8 minutes long and still hit Top Ten. How about the "rules" of popular music trends? The Beatles being told "guitar bands are out". Synths making a comeback. The death of rock n roll in the 80s.

My rambling point is this. I think it's valid to write (and perform) a song from any viewpoint whatsoever! Especially if it provokes discussion. Since there were a few conflicting viewpoints on my lyrics, I decided to keep them as they are. Who listens to the lyrics anyway? ;)

I recorded it last night, I'll post the result sometime this weekend. It ended up NOT being like unplugged "Layla" as I originally planned, more like the White Album version of "Revolution"....
 
Hi Strat, I think there are plenty of songwriting rules.

I also think they can ALL be broken.

It's all subjective. Audience decides if a song is "good" or "bad" and the audience only know what they like.

My biggest gripe with your lyric is that (for this subject matter) it's too direct. Here is a more oblique lyric, "..about a man who lived in Chelsea (London) all his life, first in a mansion and then on a bench on The Embankment (beside the river Thames)".

It was written by an Englishman called Tony McPhee who had a band called "The Groundhogs" and the above is his own description of the song.

"Eccentric Man" by Tony McPhee

My chest is a 36, my overcoat is for a 42.
My trousers end 6 inches from the ground, 3 inches from my shoe,
Tied up with a piece of string and held together with fish-bone glue.

Call me an eccentric man, I don't believe I am

My bed is a park bench and my sheet and blankets are newspaper pages.
The people think I'm crazy, but I know I'm wiser than all the sages,
'cos I have money they think that I'm a fool for doing what I do, but I know it's right.

Call me an eccentric man, I don't believe I am

SOLO IN E

If ever I want to I can have the comfort of my country home.
But until that time I'm quite content to have walls made of gravestones,
a carpet of moss, a ceiling of sky and a brown rat for a watch-dog.

Call me an eccentric man, I don't believe I am

SOLO IN G

Have a listen to the song on YouTube if you get 3 minutes to spare...

Frankie xxx :)
 
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