3 practice amps to gig with?

[marshallpk89]

Please...having fun is better than looking, and sounding good?

No, giving the people the best show is the most important thing. Of coarse the sound man would be thrilled if you asked him to plug you pedal in instead of micing an amp. His job just got easy. You think he cares if your tone is shit? Easy for him to say, "I did the best with what I had to work with", and dump it back on your less than professional equipment. You think he cares if the crowd sees the garage band equipment on stage, and thinks "not a very professional band"?

It's great that you had a good time. However, you only have one chance to make a first impression with the audience, and the club owner (booker). Sorry, but you having fun has little to nothing to do with them wanting to book you again, or come see you again.

So, lets recap:

Lame guitar tone
Poor stage volume
No sound check
Bad monitor mix
Couldn't hear vocals in the audience.

But.....the sound man was happy because his job was easier.

I'm the only one that see's the problem with this?

Hint: This is when the sound guys jump in and shout "not the sound guys fault he doesn't have a good amp, and experience".

Would you be playing music if it wasn't fun? The day I cease to enjoy playing music is the day I stop playing music, and imo for a first gig having fun is much more important than sounding good, you cant expect to have perfect sound your first time, and if you have fun your much more likely to do it again, and continue pushing yourself, get better equipment, ect. And if a band is having fun and playing decently, the crowd is much more likely to get behind them than a band who is playing perfectly but is dull, drab and bored onstage

 

[stevieb]

So, now we are back to ragging on sound men?? WTF's up with THAT?

Toker, your prespective is a little skewed, methinks, or at least rather out of focus (understandable to a point- it can be hard to see things clearly FROM SEVERAL HUNDRED MILES AWAY.)

Soundchecks are not always possible, or even feasable.
The OP said nothing about the crowd or the club owner being unhappy with the show- we have to assume they were at least reasonably pleased. If they had not been, I am sure the OP would have told us.

Stage volume was described as "low," not "poor."

 

[Toker41]

Making the sound guy happy is VERY important. He may not make you sound great, but he CAN make you sound bad.

I would fire any sound guy that would say that.


Getting along with him may make things more pleasant, but he either wants his job, or he doesn't.

 

[Toker41]

So, now we are back to ragging on sound men?? WTF's up with THAT?

Toker, your prespective is a little skewed, methinks, or at least rather out of focus (understandable to a point- it can be hard to see things clearly FROM SEVERAL HUNDRED MILES AWAY.)

Soundchecks are not always possible, or even feasable.
The OP said nothing about the crowd or the club owner being unhappy with the show- we have to assume they were at least reasonably pleased. If they had not been, I am sure the OP would have told us.

Stage volume was described as "low," not "poor."

Just re-read his post. My bad. He said "stage sound was crap", not "guitar sound was crap". He also stated that he was unhappy with the sound over all, and the vocals were to low.

I'm not ragging on sound guys. I'm simply saying that, as I stated from the start, one should never assume that you are getting a sound check, or that the guitar will be in the monitors. One should also never assume that every sound man knows what they are doing. Your tone is just that...YOUR TONE. I'm sorry, but if it takes him a little work to make it sound good, then so be it. It's his job. However, I'm not saying I'm not willing to work with him. "turn down a little", or "drop a little low end" is fine, but my stage volume, and tone is also just as important, and should not be viewed as unimportant.
As I said, I'm not ragging on sound guys. However, when soundmen start jumping out, and giving this guy advice like "just make the sound guys job easy, and everything will be fine", I have to question the motive. It's not ok to think any sound guy might be unskilled, but it's ok for the sound guys to assume that every guitar player with a half stack plays too loud, or is an asshole? Everyone here (except me) said to "trust the sound man" without knowing one thing about him, and nobody considered that an opening band might not get a sound check. So, again I say, never leave it to chance. Go on stage with a good sounding AMP, with enough reserve power to produce a volume that allows you, and the rest of the band to hear yourself.

 

[Toker41]

Would you be playing music if it wasn't fun? The day I cease to enjoy playing music is the day I stop playing music, and imo for a first gig having fun is much more important than sounding good, you cant expect to have perfect sound your first time, and if you have fun your much more likely to do it again, and continue pushing yourself, get better equipment, ect. And if a band is having fun and playing decently, the crowd is much more likely to get behind them than a band who is playing perfectly but is dull, drab and bored onstage

I never said it's not important to have fun. I simply said that when putting on a show, as a performer, it's more important that everything be done right. If it doesn't sound good, or things go terribly wrong, then it's not much fun. Nobody said anything about anybody being bored, dull, or drab.

No, you can't expect to have perfect sound the first time out. You can't expect to have perfect sound the last time out, or any in between. That was my point. Leave as little as possible to chance, because even at best, you can't know what to expect.

 

[ggunn]

...the main goal should always be for a band to sound it's best. Period. You never know who is listening.

Didn't you say earlier (a lot earlier) that making the music sound to the audience the best it can is NOT the most important thing?

And IMO the "making the job easier for the sound man" is a straw man argument. I don't think anyone here is promoting doing that at the expense of the sound of the band. And as far as the sound man not caring about the sound and just wanting the gig to be easier, well, at least in the eyes (and ears) of this sometimes sound man, that's BS. I have pride in my work, even when I am doing it for free.

As far as the fun vector in all this is concerned it's important for at least two reasons I can think of. One is that if the band is enjoying themselves, then it works toward getting the audience involved in the performance, which IS, in my opinion, the most important thing a band can do at any level. The other is that playing had better be fun for the musicians, because it's a competitive cutthroat business and the odds against a given band ever making a living at it, much less "making it", are so huge that it had better be worth doing for other reasons.

All MO, of course. Yours may differ, and that's cool.

 

[marshallpk89]

I never said it's not important to have fun. I simply said that when putting on a show, as a performer, it's more important that everything be done right. If it doesn't sound good, or things go terribly wrong, then it's not much fun. Nobody said anything about anybody being bored, dull, or drab.

No, you can't expect to have perfect sound the first time out. You can't expect to have perfect sound the last time out, or any in between. That was my point. Leave as little as possible to chance, because even at best, you can't know what to expect.

Okay, and my point was that when starting out it is more important to have fun, this was a first show not his 5000th, you are going to have some shows where everything goes terribly and sounds horrible, if your first show is like that its really discouraging, but if you have fun the first time, despite less than perfect sound, its a lot easier to keep playing, and get motivated to make yourself better, and not quit after just a few shows.

And my point about the bored dull and drab part was just that it is much easier to appear lively and entertaining if you are enjoying yourself, thats all

 

[Toker41]

Didn't you say earlier (a lot earlier) that making the music sound to the audience the best it can is NOT the most important thing?

And IMO the "making the job easier for the sound man" is a straw man argument. I don't think anyone here is promoting doing that at the expense of the sound of the band. And as far as the sound man not caring about the sound and just wanting the gig to be easier, well, at least in the eyes (and ears) of this sometimes sound man, that's BS. I have pride in my work, even when I am doing it for free.

As far as the fun vector in all this is concerned it's important for at least two reasons I can think of. One is that if the band is enjoying themselves, then it works toward getting the audience involved in the performance, which IS, in my opinion, the most important thing a band can do at any level. The other is that playing had better be fun for the musicians, because it's a competitive cutthroat business and the odds against a given band ever making a living at it, much less "making it", are so huge that it had better be worth doing for other reasons.

All MO, of course. Yours may differ, and that's cool.

You may take pride in your work. I do, too. However, I work with people every day that don't. It's hit or miss. I never said ALL sound guys sucked. However, you must admit that some do. Fact is, you never know what you are going to get. So, I say again....I leave nothing to chance, and control every inch of everything that is in my control. Minimize the risk.



And no, I don't believe I would ever say that the music sounding the best it can to the audience was not the most important thing. That should always be the main goal. In order for that to happen, I have to be able to hear myself on stage. Thus, I do not leave that to chance.

 

[ggunn]

You may take pride in your work. I do, too. However, I work with people every day that don't. It's hit or miss. I never said ALL sound guys sucked. However, you must admit that some do. Fact is, you never know what you are going to get. So, I say again....I leave nothing to chance, and control every inch of everything that is in my control. Minimize the risk.



And no, I don't believe I would ever say that the music sounding the best it can to the audience was not the most important thing. That should always be the main goal. In order for that to happen, I have to be able to hear myself on stage. Thus, I do not leave that to chance.

And good luck with that.

Sometimes in the real world one has to make a choice between competing compromises. I agree that sounding good to the audience is more important than sounding good to the band. Sometimes that means a choice between having the full stage at your disposal and hearing yourself. If I must make that choice, I pick hearing myself for the same reasons you do. I could blast the stage with my 50 watt Marshall full stack, and things would be great for me no matter where I went, but it would be at the expense of my band mates; I choose not to do that. The monitors are often not up to the task of providing me with the stage volume I'd like to have, given that they are full of vocals. Upshot: sometimes to hear myself I have to stay near my amp, given the choices I have made.

That's OK, I can put on a good show without having to run all over the stage. YMMV; if so you'll make different choices. It's great for you if you don't have to make those kinds of choices, but many (maybe even most) of us are not that fortunate.

We're in a roundabout here, so I think I'll hit my turn signal and get off.

I'll just leave you with this: I was talking with a friend of mine about a gig her band had played where some unforeseen things had come up. She looked at me and said, "I don't know why I keep doing this; I never know what is going to happen." We looked at each other for a moment and then we both busted out laughing. If people had exactly the same experience every time they went fishing, they wouldn't do it nearly so much. Every time you show up for a gig, stuff is going to happen that you had not anticipated, and I embrace it. We all have our ways of dealing with the curves that are thrown us; mine are not universal and neither are yours.

 

[soundchaser59]

My stage volume should make no difference.

Only someone who has never run the board would think that...... this is a guaranteed way to start the gig by pissing off the soundman..... if you turn down your rig and then never hear yourself in the monitors, then you have the wrong soundman.

 

[Toker41]

Spinal Tap was funny because it's true.

Please keep in mind that I never said anything about blasting volumes. I only need to be able to hear myself. However, I fully expect there to be spots on the stage where I can't. Just not most of it.

 

[ggunn]

Only someone who has never run the board would think that...... this is a guaranteed way to start the gig by pissing off the soundman..... if you turn down your rig and then never hear yourself in the monitors, then you have the wrong soundman.

We all have encountered guitarists who turn up their amps so loud that the sound man is completely screwed no matter how good he is. We all have encountered surly sound men who would let the fact that they were personally irritated by something affect their performance. We should all strive to not be these people.

I hasten to admit that in the past, I have been these people, but I work on it every gig I take, whether it be as a musician or a sound man. After 40 years of doing it, I'm almost there...

 

[Toker41]

Well put.

 

[tminusmat]

You guys had so much good advice I wanted to follow up on that one gig.

I didn't like the stage sound. the vocals going out were a little low but not bad. We had it video taped and after seeing it the sound was MUCH better than I thought. It was actually pretty good.

A week after the gig the owner called us up told us how impressed he was with our sound, and asked us to play May 16th (sat night) at his downtown Portland club Satyricon.

So overall it was a good show. I just want to be able to hear ourselves better to enjoy it more. It's still more about those who paid to see it.

tminusmat