apl
Stand Up Comity
Is it $20 for the manual? Or for the whole shipment? Maybe he meant to put $200.
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mshilarious
Banned
That's actually an interesting question--what is the value of, say, the 81? I have seen people trying to recover their costs on resale, including shipping from CA to their location. Since when is that a valid part of the value of a retail good? Manufacturer to distributor, yes, retailer to customer, no.
It seems from comments on PSW and here that Chance is contemplating another round. Let's presume the Chinese learn from the free troubleshooting and engineering going on here, and replace the transformer, redesign the PCBs and the gain switch, and use proper transistors. Probably their cost will not increase substantially, maybe $10 more for the higher quality trafo (which apparently will cost $75 in a US-made short-run batch). OK then, let's say the redesigned 81 now costs $200.
What then the value of the units that need all those fixes?
c7sus
Disenfranchised Member
This group buy thing just gets better and better.
Another round??? You can't be serious.
Really. Life is too short for 300 more pages of this nonsense.
Another round??? You can't be serious.
Really. Life is too short for 300 more pages of this nonsense.
Z
zorf
New member
Mshilarious,
I tried selling mine locally, but no one wants a project.
Just trying to cover costs, and yes i think the shipping to my house should be included in the calculation.
So it looks like i have to buy $100 worth of parts, spend a day swapping out parts, hope i dont muck it up, then hopefully i'll end up with something
like the chameleon labs deal.
Those are branded and have a warranty and sell for maybe $700 ish?
The "free" shipping is folded into the price.
So when i'm done i have maybe a $400 pre?
No warranty and hard to resell because it's not a brand.
I waited a year for that?
and its still not over.
I tried selling mine locally, but no one wants a project.
Just trying to cover costs, and yes i think the shipping to my house should be included in the calculation.
So it looks like i have to buy $100 worth of parts, spend a day swapping out parts, hope i dont muck it up, then hopefully i'll end up with something
like the chameleon labs deal.
Those are branded and have a warranty and sell for maybe $700 ish?
The "free" shipping is folded into the price.
So when i'm done i have maybe a $400 pre?
No warranty and hard to resell because it's not a brand.
I waited a year for that?
and its still not over.
J
JuliánFernández
2&4
Group Buy for dummies...
Guys, can anyone explain me what is going on with the famous Group Buy??!
I read threads about noisy preamps and defective ribbons... WTH?!
Can anyone tell me the short version of the whole thing?
Guys, can anyone explain me what is going on with the famous Group Buy??!
I read threads about noisy preamps and defective ribbons... WTH?!
Can anyone tell me the short version of the whole thing?
mshilarious
Banned
I understand you feel that way, but given that others have exchanged their pres before shipment, how would the fact that your pre was shipped to you impact the value of the pre? Nothing has changed with the hardware.
I would guess the pres have value equal to acquisition cost ONLY if there is not another round. If there is another round of the group buy where those pres work properly, then the value of the pres in hand is equal to the price in the next buy, less repair costs, plus some premium for availability (that is, not having to wait a year).
Once the next round pres are in hand, the value of the first run pres will drop to exclude that premium.
Z
zorf
New member
MS,
yes.
"aquisition cost" is exactly how i chose to look at it.
I would have had it sent to someone else but;
1) Nobody knew these were buggy at the time.
2) Chance didnt answer my emails. ( hi chance, i know you are busy)
3) i was hoping they might actually be something i could use.
If i decide that i cant or dont want to do the fixes myself,
it would probably add another $100 labor and $80 shipping rt.
to the previous calcs.
yes.
"aquisition cost" is exactly how i chose to look at it.
I would have had it sent to someone else but;
1) Nobody knew these were buggy at the time.
2) Chance didnt answer my emails. ( hi chance, i know you are busy)
3) i was hoping they might actually be something i could use.
If i decide that i cant or dont want to do the fixes myself,
it would probably add another $100 labor and $80 shipping rt.
to the previous calcs.
Z
zorf
New member
just to do the math for you, it;s around $500.
mshilarious
Banned
You think you can sell the pre for that?
Z
zorf
New member
No, that's my point.
noisedude
New member
It's quite easy to see how Chance believed his off-the-peg non-working preamps were like custom-made Neve clones when he looks at this thread and believes that despite two 'rounds' of people being sold bogus junk that this would be the perfect time to start talking about the next round.
I imagine he's fairly sure black is white, too, and don't even try to convince him left isn't right.
ausrock
Well-known member
Not sure what you're getting at.............the USPS Customs Declarations that were filled out by Chance or his "agents" had the parcel/package values as $20US. This was not a mistake, the mics that arrived two weeks ago were marked the same as the two preamp packages that are currently being held by Australia Post's Customs people...........it obviously isn't rocket science to see what happened.......a spot check picked up a two package shipment, each package weighing 15lbs with a contents description of "Audio Products" with a declared value of only $20US..........this is bound to make any Customs officer suspicious.
Are the pres only worth $20US..........well, I guess it depends on who you ask
.......the pair I'm waiting on are actually not for me but for a guy who missed the GB cut off date.
noisedude
New member
Not sure what you're getting at.............the USPS Customs Declarations that were filled out by Chance or his "agents" had the parcel/package values as $20US. This was not a mistake, the mics that arrived two weeks ago were marked the same as the two preamp packages that are currently being held by Australia Post's Customs people...........it obviously isn't rocket science to see what happened.......a spot check picked up a two package shipment, each package weighing 15lbs with a contents description of "Audio Products" with a declared value of only $20US..........this is bound to make any Customs officer suspicious.
Are the pres only worth $20US..........well, I guess it depends on who you ask
Unless it works differently over there, the important thing isn't what you say they're worth, it's what you paid for them.
Keep that receipt well-hidden, or bring it out straight away and blame it on the retailer.
D
donkeystyle
New member
JuliánFernández;3106838 said:
Ribbons don't seem to be much of an issue this time around, but the preamps are all f-ed up.
The acmp73's are useable right out of the box for the most part, but the acmp81's aren't. I just replaced the transistors in my acmp81's and accidentally lifted a trace on one. I ran a jumper to the place the traces were supposed to go, but apparently the traces were deceiving. I Fucked up that one acmp81.
Hopefully my buddy that has a lot more experience with electronics stuff than I do can help me get everything working again.
In the end, unless you're an electronics DIY guru, the preamps are a bad buy. Even if you are an electronics guy, it's pretty hard to decide if this whole preamp group buy thing was a good idea.
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ausrock
Well-known member
Nik,
The onus is on the seller or their agent to fill the documentation in correctly, including the "declared value" of the goods........this was not done, consequently, I've provided Customs with proof of the actual value/purchase prices, explained that I had no control over the declared details and am now waiting to see if they have accepted this information and will release the pres.
Mate, it's become more and more apparent that Chance is playing people for all he's worth to the point that he's almost made an artform of it
ChrisO
tarnationsauce2
Welcome to the jungle.
Chance obviously had good intentions and the preamps would have been a super deal had they been implemented properly. The case and parts alone in the U.S. would cost more than we paid.
The biggest part of the preamp issue is the nature of the inductor circuit with the cheap China transformers. The transformers might be fine in some gear but not good in circuits with inductors.
The next round is supposed to have compressors. I am crossing my fingers for an SSL bus, 1176, or maybe even a LA2A clone.
I really hope Chance does a few things before the next round:
With that said, I will probably continue join all GB's Chance puts together no matter what. I am perfectly willig and able to repair and mod my own gear should I have to. In the case of the ACMP's I wasn't going to use them at all in the stock form anyways. I enjoy modding too much to leave well enough alone.
So I guess for me it didn't matter that there are some flaws... the preamps flaws just give me a starting point to mod. So they actually saved me time on finding a weakness. lol
{EDIT} This is NOT in response to any one's post. It's just me rambling.
The biggest part of the preamp issue is the nature of the inductor circuit with the cheap China transformers. The transformers might be fine in some gear but not good in circuits with inductors.
The next round is supposed to have compressors. I am crossing my fingers for an SSL bus, 1176, or maybe even a LA2A clone.
I really hope Chance does a few things before the next round:
- Make some serious changes to the next revision of the ACMP preamps. With a little tweaking they will be quite good.
- Be VERY forthcoming and say that that any GB gear comes AS-IS unless DOA. Maybe make buyers read and understand a disclaimer. Unfortunately that will leave China to be even less accountable for their QC issues but it appears they don't care all that much about QC anyway. To China's credit they did do better with the ribbons this time.
I hope this will weed out all the people who aren't willing to fix or mod the gear should there be any issues. Or if there are everyone can rightfully tell them they should have read the disclaimer and done their own due diligence. - Take the time to have qualified technicians and engineers from the forums that are willing to help evaluate all prototypes for as much time is needed to work out any bugs.
- Give a disclaimer that for the gear to be delivered it will be over 6 months up to an undetermined amount of time that is proportional to the size / amount of total orders. This will help cut back on complaints like this GB was plagued with. The number of buyers grew tremendously as compared to previous GB's. While a smaller GB can be as little as 6 months for delivery, bigger ones will take more time due to final pack/ship.
With that said, I will probably continue join all GB's Chance puts together no matter what. I am perfectly willig and able to repair and mod my own gear should I have to. In the case of the ACMP's I wasn't going to use them at all in the stock form anyways. I enjoy modding too much to leave well enough alone.
So I guess for me it didn't matter that there are some flaws... the preamps flaws just give me a starting point to mod. So they actually saved me time on finding a weakness. lol{EDIT} This is NOT in response to any one's post. It's just me rambling.
E
eyeteeth
New member
I'm kinda curious about the replacement ribbons, non-delivered shock mounts, and now the DOA pre amps. Chance has said he'd take care of them once shipping was complete, and I believe him, but I haven' seen or heard for quite a while where in the process he is, or if he's done yet. Chance also hasn't responded to my PM's as of yet.
Does anyone know anything, or can some one send Chance back over to these boards to answer some of these questions that are piling up?
Does anyone know anything, or can some one send Chance back over to these boards to answer some of these questions that are piling up?
P
P. Glaser
New member
Chance has been posting a little over at PSW. Last I heard, he was just about finished with the shipping, (should be, by now). HTH
Paul
G
Gilliland
New member
I've been pretty quiet here lately as all of this preamp discussion has taken place. I opted not to buy any mic pres in this batch, not because I didn't trust them, but because the current configs don't meet my needs. So there's been little point in my commenting on them.
But with all these people coming along and slamming Chance for the difficulties, I'd like to direct you back to a post that I made here about nine months ago:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=2924297#post2924297
Nothing has changed since I posted that. If you're truly unhappy with your purchase, that's unfortunate, but the risk was always your own. If Chance is able to help resolve some of the problems, perhaps he'll do so eventually. If not, then you'll have to do so yourself (via soldering iron, ebay, or the trash bin). But don't blame him for the risk that YOU took.
YOU bought a product, sight unseen, from a Chinese manufacturer. Chance did you a favor by acting as an order aggregator so that you (and each of us) could get the best possible price on this purchase. But he's not the seller. I can't blame you (all) for being disappointed with the Chinese manufacturer. But don't blame it on Chance. He has acted in good faith.
And, btw, don't think that I have no skin in the game. I've been sitting here with sagging ribbon mics for over two years now. I'm hopeful that Chance will eventually find a way to help me resolve that - but if he doesn't, that's my problem, not his.
But with all these people coming along and slamming Chance for the difficulties, I'd like to direct you back to a post that I made here about nine months ago:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=2924297#post2924297
Nothing has changed since I posted that. If you're truly unhappy with your purchase, that's unfortunate, but the risk was always your own. If Chance is able to help resolve some of the problems, perhaps he'll do so eventually. If not, then you'll have to do so yourself (via soldering iron, ebay, or the trash bin). But don't blame him for the risk that YOU took.
YOU bought a product, sight unseen, from a Chinese manufacturer. Chance did you a favor by acting as an order aggregator so that you (and each of us) could get the best possible price on this purchase. But he's not the seller. I can't blame you (all) for being disappointed with the Chinese manufacturer. But don't blame it on Chance. He has acted in good faith.
And, btw, don't think that I have no skin in the game. I've been sitting here with sagging ribbon mics for over two years now. I'm hopeful that Chance will eventually find a way to help me resolve that - but if he doesn't, that's my problem, not his.
Z
zorf
New member
I'm not hatin on chance, myself.
But another way to look at this might be;
You front the money and take the risk in exchange for a super good price.
If after a year, you end up with something that is worth less than you paid for,
than i dont think that is a good deal.
I agree that the box itself is worth something.
If someone asked you to put up a couple of hundred dollars for a box filled
with components that would have to removed and you would have to wait a year, just to get a box to use for projects, do you think this thread would have all these pages?
Maybe it's a developmental thing, but i'm at the stage where i just want a few good things and not a pile of not so good things.
But another way to look at this might be;
You front the money and take the risk in exchange for a super good price.
If after a year, you end up with something that is worth less than you paid for,
than i dont think that is a good deal.
I agree that the box itself is worth something.
If someone asked you to put up a couple of hundred dollars for a box filled
with components that would have to removed and you would have to wait a year, just to get a box to use for projects, do you think this thread would have all these pages?
Maybe it's a developmental thing, but i'm at the stage where i just want a few good things and not a pile of not so good things.
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