Of skycrapers and software

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gecko zzed

gecko zzed

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When doing a bit of a cleanup of the nearly forgotten contents of cupboards at home, I discovered my old Amiga computer. Always willing to be diverted from the tedious task of deciding what to keep and what to throw out, I thought I'd see whether I had all its bits (it did) and whether it still worked. I connected everything, turned it on and held my breath. It booted up perfectly, so I had a look at some of the musical stuff I'd been working on with the Amiga, and in particular, with a midi composition application called Music-X. I discovered many fragments of tunes written in the early nineties; it was a cool trip down Nostalgia Boulevarde. Around that time I wrote a suite of 'classical' pieces (one of which, 'Procession', I've loaded onto my MySpace page). Since then, I've not tackled anything on that scale. Pondering on why that should be, I realised that partly the explanation sits somewhere in motivation and inspiration, but the other part sits in Music X itself. That prompted me to write the following thoughts.

Imagine you've been asked to build a skyscraper.

There are a number of building methods you can choose, and for this exercise, I'll pick three: horizontal incremental, horizontal modular, and vertical skeletal.

With horizontal incremental you construct the building by starting with the foundations, adding walls and and stuff for the first floor, then gradually building upwards (the way you would do with Lego).

With horizontal modular, you would prefabricate whole sections on the ground, then, when finished, lift each and place it on top of other already positioned modules. There are practical difficulties with this, so you need to imagine that these difficulties can be handled.

With vertical skeletal, you first build, say, a steel skeleton that forms the structure of the building as a whole, then you go and put in the floors and walls until the whole skeleton has its body.

There are a range of factors that will influence your choice of method, and these include height of the building, suitable technology, costs and so on.

We'll now leave the skyscrapers for a moment.

There are numerous music applications around these days. I've been using Logic since the mid nineties, and more recently, I've been playing with Reaper. But I've either seen or experienced Cakewalk, Cubase, Fruityloops, Cool Edit, Sibelius and many others. All audio and midi programs do pretty much the same things, but each is slightly, and sometimes, subtly different. These differences, though maybe small, are important. We all process information differently. Some people are 'big picture' people, others focus on detail. Some people prefer to plan ahead, others like to work things out as they go along. Some people are highly visual. Others are highly aural, and others are highly kinetic. For example, when someone asks you directions to find a place, a visual person really wants you to draw a map so they can see where to go, while others want to be told. If you give verbal directions to a visual person, it takes them longer to process the information, and likewise, an aural person doesn't find map-reading as easy as verbal instructions.

Music software is written by people who come pre-equipped with their perceptual preferences, and these then become incorporated into the software. Because software is usually produced by teams of programmers, and rarely one person operating alone, the software reflects the combined effect of all these preferences. So the differences are not huge.

However, when it comes to using the software, we will generally regard the application that suits are way of processing information to be more 'intuitive', more 'user-friendly' and more functional. If the software is less aligned to our way of thinking, we find it difficult to learn, counter-intuitive and lacking in functional power. For example, prior to using Logic, I had an early demo version of Cubase, and it and I never saw eye to eye. Though I could use it, I struggled mightily with it. When I got Logic, everything seemed to fall into place. Logic wasn't particularly easy to learn, but it all seemed to make sense. Likewise, the Music-X program on the Amiga was one that I had a strong affinity for. Another Amiga application around at about the same time ('Bars and Pipes') was one that had me flummoxed most of the time.

There are compostional and production benefits if we find a package that is aligned nicely to the way we think about things; the technology becomes an aid, rather than something we have to wrestle with. For example, in various other parts of this site there are threads relating to the benefits or otherwise of external control systems. Some people extol the benefits of physically moving sliders on mixers, while others prefer mixing 'in the box'. The debate often degrades to "mixing in the box is best", "no it isn't, nothing beats hands on". The debaters often don't realise that they are simply expressing unconsciously their perceptual preferences; people who are predominantly kinetic preferring the tactile, hands-on experience, while others preferring the visualness of the computer screen. Another illustration: I do a lot of live mixing, but being a highly visual person, I become extremely uncomfortable if I cannot see the performers on stage (because people get in the way), or I cannot see the desk (because it's too dark). Other live mixers are highly aural, and not seeing the stage is not a problem for them. Others are highly tacticle, and don't need to see the desk, they find their way around it quite comfortably in the dark, operating on feel.

Now . . . back to the skyscrapers. Logic is a program that allows you to build a musical skyscraper that is 'vertical skeletal', i.e. it is relatively easy to assemble a musical piece by developing a framework (e.g. a drum track) then adding all the bits needed wherever they need to go. Fruityloops, on the other hand, allows you to easily build 'horizontal modular' musical skyscrapers, because you create chunks and assemble these chunks into a musical whole. The Amiga's Music X, and notation programs such as Sibelius, are good for building 'horizontal incremental' musical skyscrapers; with them you can easily create music bar by bar.

With luck, you'll be using a package that suits your mode of thinking.

But there is another side.

When I switched from Music X on the Amiga to Logic on the PC, my classical compositions virtually ceased. One of the reasons was that I created these compositions bar by bar, which was easy to do in Music X, without necessarily having a clear idea of how they would end up. Logic was a program that pushed me into thinking more 'completely' about compositions, and needing to have specific objectives, and creating 'open-ended' compositions became more difficult.

This means that even if a package suits our mode of thinking, it can push us into a particular mode of operation. And that mode of operation can limit the creative options we could otherwise call on. We have in this forum the very fine creative efforts of Joseph (Icystorm) and Sean (Sedstar), and we have noticed their unique and distinctive styles. I now put forward the assertion that these styles, in part, derive from the applications they each are using. Joseph does wonderful things with Jamstudio, while Sean does likewise with Fruityloops. But now I wonder to what extent their compositional development is being hampered by the particular application. I'm not intending to be critical of Joseph or Sean, and I'm only using them as examples because their styles are quite distinctive and different. My speculation is that the software we use has a greater influence than we realise on our compositions. We may choose to accept this influence and continue on as we have been going . . . there's nothing wrong with that. We may loose something by changing (as I did going from Music X to Logic). But . . . we may gain a musical perspective that we might otherwise miss if we tackle composition differently.

I have to go now. I'm keen to get back and see if I can still remember how to use Music X.

However, I'm interested in others' views on this grand theory.
 
Hi GZ,

Intriguing post. I don't think that there's any doubt whatever that the software you use could have an influence on how you create. But I also believe that it's just another influence or variable to add to the pile.

I don't currently use any Jamstudio/Fruityloops/Band in a Box style programs - not because I have anything against them but because I just don't have them. I tried to get BiaB but nobody local had it, and I don't use credit cards, so online buying is out. But I do have guitars (nylon string and steel, electric and acoustic) keyboards, clarinet, etc and they all exert different influences if I try and use them to write anything.

At one end of the scale is my clarinet - a one note at a time tool - which has a very distinctive fingering pattern. Some combinations are easier to play than others, and some sounds are especially satisfying, either alone or when followed by others. Those factors exert a strong influence.

At the other end is the 88 note piano which allows me to try out melody or chords. or both together, bass lines and melody, bass and chords, or whatever combination I can dream up. The layout, the sounds, and the potential of the instrument all make a big difference.

In between is the guitar. Sound-wise it's a very versatile instrument in its own right, so there are a range of 'guitarish' things that you can do which are not easily copied on other instruments. The layout of the sounds under your fingers and the whole way you operate it exerts a major influence too.

Then there's vocals and lyrics. Some people like to write lyrics first. Others think that's the worst possible way to do it, and feel the music must lead the parade while the words must be structured to fit with the pulse of the sounds. Some write chords first, others melody first, and so on.

To add to that, there's Finale which I can use to create a midi which will play whatever instrument I assign to it. This is a whole new area of study as well, with almost endless possibilities.

But you asked about whether using particular software packages should be seen as limiting. The answer would apparently seem to be 'Yes'. But on the other hand, if you don't reach those limits, then it might still be 'No'. Bach and Mozart were undoubtedly cramped by the technical limitations of the available instruments and by the musical conventions of their day, but they still found plenty of room to move.

I think that the major limitation of any tool is the imagination and experience of the person using it. Plus I do like to ring the changes and try it all anyway.;)

Cheers,

Chris
 
But you asked about whether using particular software packages should be seen as limiting. The answer would apparently seem to be 'Yes'. But on the other hand, if you don't reach those limits, then it might still be 'No'. Bach and Mozart were undoubtedly cramped by the technical limitations of the available instruments and by the musical conventions of their day, but they still found plenty of room to move.

My post focussed on software as a compositional tool, and to the extent that the software design influenced how one composed.

As it happens, you can compose anyway you like using any program; none need be a critical limiting factor in what you produce, but some are more suited to your style of composition than others. And it is possible that staying within a particular musical environment may imhibit further development.

The same applies with musical instruments. You may hear in your head all sorts of wonderful compositions, but if all you can play is a guitar, then somehow you have to convert those ideas into something you can actually play on guitar. It is another example of the technology inhibiting your capacity to express a concept in its fullness.

Your problems are fewer if you are a multi-instrumentalist; an idea that doesn't translate well to guitar may suit a piano perfectly.

And then, if you are a Mozart or Beethoven, your knowledge of how orchestral instruments function and sound in relation to each other means that you can combine these in anyay you want to achieve the sound you hear in your head.
 
On a similar train of thought, I advocate that at some point in a composition you might want to try writing the main melody of a song acapella rather than using a playing tool (instrument) or recording tool (software package) as writing aids.

I don't mean exclusivley, as it's fun and adds variety to pick up an instrument and play and lead yourself somewhere. Also, working with a recording tool and slowly building a piece can be similarly satisfying, although I've yet to find the right package for me: I have tried an early version of Cakewalk and also Cubasis (without joy) and I am just about to try "Cakewalk9/Sonar2". Also I have been recommended Logic several times and it sounds like one I should try maybe.

However, taking that all important main melody line "out on it's own" to see what you have and where you can take it works well for me on the melody creation front. Also, when it's acapella, you can't kid yourself you have a strong melody because there are some nice chords behind it! Bonus: Anybody can do this as you don't need to be able to play an instrument or use a package! ;)

Maybe it's just me, but all too often when I used to write solely with a guitar or keyboard I would lead myself to the same or similar melodies, probably bound by my playing limitations. Well, maybe. Who knows? Who cares?

That's my ten pennorth again on the virtues of (some) acapella working! :D
 
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On a similar train of thought, I advocate that at some point in a composition you might want to try writing the main melody of a song acapella rather than using a playing tool (instrument) or recording tool (software package) as writing aids.
That seems like an excellent point.

I've heard of many songwriters who liked to do that as part of the process - sometimes using their hand for drumming out a simply rhythm whilst they did so.

For me, at this stage, the effect seems to be the reverse of that probably found with more experienced musicians. If I compose melodies by singing or humming I'm much more likely to fall into familiar tunes. Whereas if I'm using an instrument I don't seem to have many 'built in' patterns yet. So that still works well for me.

However, I'm working on trying to get better at being more original with voice. Apart from anything else it doesn't need carrying case, batteries or a socket, so I never leave home without it.

Cheers,

Chris
 
For me, at this stage, the effect seems to be the reverse of that probably found with more experienced musicians. If I compose melodies by singing or humming I'm much more likely to fall into familiar tunes. Whereas if I'm using an instrument I don't seem to have many 'built in' patterns yet. So that still works well for me.

However, I'm working on trying to get better at being more original with voice. Apart from anything else it doesn't need carrying case, batteries or a socket, so I never leave home without it.

Cheers, Chris

Yep I hear what you say. I got into doing some work with just voice by accident and for the very reason that I didn't have a guitar with me..

I used to be an engineer and later a salesman covering the UK meaning longish drives. I reckon I did about 500,000 miles over 25 years of it! (To the moon and back!:D) So after awhile, I'd turn the radio off and start singing other peoples songs.. this lead me to singing my own songs and starting to write bits acapella!

This was after many years of bashing a guitar relentlessly when trying to write songs. I noticed that I came up with different ideas for some of the songs I'd already written when I didn't have the trusty axe in hand..

Anyway, it's just another tool. It may work for some. It's all good. The main thing is to write something! :D
 
I love the way your mind deconstruct things Gecko! There is a PhD in there somewhere. With the use of technology in schools we often talk about digitalization of analogue practice or whether some thing new (transformational) is happening that could not be achieved in the absence of the technology.

What you are talking about here is software’s predisposition to direct its user to one workflow or another. What interests me, as an educator is will one piece of software limit or expand our capacities?

Before I am killed in the rush I am not suggesting that software can replace talent, but it can facilitate innate talent to a higher level, like a great guitar.
What you are suggesting is vital to anyone who takes composition on software seriously.

Software is now not merely a neutral tool (not that tape ever was just tape, particularly when saturated by an expert) but is a catalyst adding value to the process of music creation.

Your analysis and analogy is so illuminating.

I think the collaborative development of music recording software means as you state that it is still possible with most products to work in what ever way you choose, but it is clear that the front end of most may impose a workflow.

Jumping between, versions of iMovie, FCP and animation software over the years has created a little switch in my head depending on which one I’m using to edit with, but I have never considered whether it has effected the style of work I have produced.

You have given me much to think about

Cheers

Burt
 
I'm not intending to be critical of Joseph or Sean, and I'm only using them as examples because their styles are quite distinctive and different. My speculation is that the software we use has a greater influence than we realise on our compositions. We may choose to accept this influence and continue on as we have been going . . . there's nothing wrong with that. We may loose something by changing (as I did going from Music X to Logic). But . . . we may gain a musical perspective that we might otherwise miss if we tackle composition differently.

Excellent post with very good observations, Gecko. I agree that using software to compose songs does indeed influence the final results and the direction of songs. This is primarily because the specific arrangement potential is limited to pre-recorded sounds.

The benefit of Jamstudio is that it gives one the ability to control (a) the chord, (b) the tempo, (c) the choice of instrumentation (from eight categories), and (d) the volume of each instrument. Of course, the opportunity to change the arrangement is limited, which is perhaps the most important limitation.

I believe that it is a good tool for producing basic demos. The drawback is that each song may have a uniformity of sound (and significantly less diversity) than real instruments or the use of multiple products, as Dave suggested.

Your overall point that if one is going to use software to create music, the use of varying types of software (vice one) will likely expand one's horizons, is well taken.

I am playing with Virtual Midi Controller 2.0.1 right now and I plan to look at some of the others you mentioned.

Cheers,
Joseph
 
You're looking back with nostalgia and whimsy at an old piece of software......from my experience right now...my software has no impact on the way I attempt to make music. I make it with my acoustic guitar, then I record it in Sonar.
 
You're looking back with nostalgia and whimsy at an old piece of software......from my experience right now...my software has no impact on the way I attempt to make music. I make it with my acoustic guitar, then I record it in Sonar.

Yep, I've no quarrel with that. I do the same: make music with my guitar and record it (except I use Logic). I also make music with my piano and record it.
My post was about using the software as a compositional tool, not simply as a recording mechanism. So not only do I record guitar or piano pieces using Logic, I also use it to compose, using samples or midi or loops or whatever. And it is in the course of doing that that I maintain the software has an influence on how you compose.
 
What you are talking about here is software’s predisposition to direct its user to one workflow or another. What interests me, as an educator is will one piece of software limit or expand our capacities?

Here is another example.

Whipper-snippers, lawn mowers and ride-on mowers are designed for fairly specific activities. If you have a lawn to mow, you can actually use any of the three. The ease with which you mow the lawn depends on the nature of the lawn. If I have a quarter acre of lawn, I could do it with the whippersnipper, but it would be highly tedious. I could also do it with the ride-on, but if there were lots of trees and other obstacles, it too would be tedious.

So the moral of the story is that you choose the tool to suit the task. If you have all three tools, then you are covered for most situations. If you only have one tool, then some things will be a breeze, and other tings not so breezy. As you note, the tools are not functionally neutral.
 
Hi, all and thanks to Gecko for the interesting post. I went from 4-track cassette to Cubase and now Ableton Live. I'm also still using the Amiga (Octamed 5). Also, I have a normal cassette player on top of the piano for recording ideas. My point is that the feeling is totally different if you compare these "instruments". They have a different sound, colors, smell, radiation. I believe, and I know this as a fact for myself, that these factors affect your inspiration and the way you compose. It's just different to sit in front of a TFT monitor in comparison to a piano, for example. I would call these external factors. Still I believe that the main thing should be your own creativity and the tool is just a tool. A carpenter has lots of tools - architects also have their own tools.

-PK
 
Hi, all and thanks to Gecko for the interesting post. I went from 4-track cassette to Cubase and now Ableton Live. I'm also still using the Amiga (Octamed 5). Also, I have a normal cassette player on top of the piano for recording ideas. My point is that the feeling is totally different if you compare these "instruments". They have a different sound, colors, smell, radiation. I believe, and I know this as a fact for myself, that these factors affect your inspiration and the way you compose. It's just different to sit in front of a TFT monitor in comparison to a piano, for example. I would call these external factors. Still I believe that the main thing should be your own creativity and the tool is just a tool. A carpenter has lots of tools - architects also have their own tools.

-PK

I remember Octamed! I used to use dabble with it, but it wasn't my program of choice.

I agree that creativity is the main thing, and I'd like to think a tool is just a tool. But I think it is a bit more complicated. A carpenter has lots of tools, and can therefore make lots of things.

But: some would-be carpenters (like me) are not as fully equipped, and doing some kind of carpentry is extremely difficult. For example, I don't have a router, so what is really easy for someone who has one is difficult for me. Some would-be carpenters are not equally skilled (also like me) in all their tools. I can hammer a nail in ok, but I can't saw a straight line to save myself. All I have is a handsaw, and that goes all over the place.

This leads to another thought: we all work with what we've got. But sometimes what we've got is just not enough to get the job done. I might dwell on this in another post, or maybe as a response to this once I've got my thoughts in order.
 
...

well... I'd like to add, that if your around musicians using various software composing software packages, or be-bopping in and ut of "real" studios, you get a chance to see people usig stuff, hear what they made, and with what software. ALso, to have heard various add-on VST instruments and such.

Me? I'm in a small town, I'm not a performing musician, and I have no known way to get a peek inside a real studio, much less get to see what any real musician uses to get somethign out of.

Heck, on my other smaller music site, the one guy has an INCREDIBLE drum trax he can add to any song. Sounds very real, and i was a drummr years back, coming from me I figure that means something to fool me.

he wont tell anyone what it is, and how he does it, because "he doesnt want to hear it in every lame post" if he lets it out...



I'm temporarily unemployed right now, but when I was working, heck, if I REALLY thought I wanted, needed, or knew how to properly use sokmething so as to justify the expense... I would go buy it (I dont have kids, lol)

new HAM radio? Expensive benchrest reloading equipment? WOuldn't have been much of a stetch to drop a grand on some better composing software, but...

I'm not a performing musician, I hardly ever get to meet them to talk any shop or pick their brains for tis. I've therefore never seen ths insde of ANY recording or mixing studio. SO I dont know what I would be even looking for, much less if I would enjoy the general layout.

Do i *KNOW* I need a "real" piano VST? Sure I do... but, it looks like to me, I have to drop like 500 to 800 bux just on the VST, and I dont even know what it sounds like before buying it, much less if i will like the way it gets used.

You guys all talk about logic this, pro tools that, and heck, the various VST's cost hundreds each.

AIn't no WAY I can justify spending 1500 bux and several hundred more on expensive VST's, just to find out I can no longer compose on a "piano roll" like I got used to over these last 5 years, and am now limited by *whatever* layout th new software has in mind for me... which I might not particularly care for....

also, if your in a small town like me, and dont get to go in studios, and talk to "real" recorded/accredited musicians, you dont really know WHO is handing out advice on the internet.... when I finally get back to work, I would LIKE TO get a "real" software package, and a couple of "real" VST instruments, you know, the kind pro's use that actually make music for movies and TV theme music projects...

but, without seeing how people USE them in front of me, to see if I would even like the layout of the software, is a big thing. When I look at stuff on the internet, it ALL looks simply awesme. WHen you "hear what the pros do with it" for audio samples, you have to wonder if those VST's come with it, or if its a thousand dollar "add on" that would work with my existing software...

a guy like me cant just waltz into a studio, and watch a real mixing guy composig after hourts on a pet project, collab-ing with a "real recorded musician" to see if I like the software or not... *shrugs*

you know what I mean?
 
In other words . . . you work with what you've got and do your best with it.

That's fine . . . that's all you can do.

There is a level of skill and technology out there that I'm never going to emulate or acquire.

But I'm not going to beat my head against the wall about it. That leads to frustration and disappointment.

You're doing fine with what you've got, Sean. I like your music, I like your quirky originality.

I can hear that it could have extra dimensions . . . but I accept that under your circumstances it may be difficult to find those extra dimensions. That's cool.
 
*sigh*

its not THAT damn cool, LMAO...

I wanna drop soimeone's JAW open in awe... LMAO

I can hear a whole damn symphony in my head, and I completely fail to get any of it onto an mp3, gawd-dammit, lmFao...

but, I dig you... I kno what yu mean...
 
Hi again,

I was beginning to wonder if we were getting anywhere with the analogies (apart from developing vague sense that getting Confucius to mow the lawn would probably end up with a most enjoyable morning sitting on the verandah discussing cutting philosophy with him, but not much progress in the short grass department... ;) ) but the points about software such as Jamstudio made me wonder yet again if I should get something similar.

I rang a local shop and they said they did indeed have one copy of Band in a Box but that it was for the Mac and, furthermore, that the recent global financial excitement had meant that the price had jumped 40% to a price that was well over what I thought it was worth to me. So I asked if they had anything similar.

They mentioned Finale Songwriter, at under a third the price. So I went to their site and it sounded much more up my alley. You write using standard notation (or guitar TAB if you like) and it can print out sheet music, create midis, or just play it back using internal voices. But it can also create basic drum tracks, in a variety of styles, which you can then edit if you wish. Plus it can automatically create simple harmonies to your melody, using a selectable menu of strategies. That sounded like fun...

Now I already have Finale Print Music (which I use for some of those functions) so I thought I'd check a little deeper and see what the difference in feature sets between the two was. And, yes, the one I already have can also do the drum tracks and the harmony.... I just hadn't got round to reading all the manual ... :o

So thanks very much for the prompt GZ. I wonder if it would be worthwhile taking this a bit further and discussing (here or in another thread) what software we all use and what we think it can do and/or not do and why we do/don't like it?

Cheers,

Chris
 
I wonder if it would be worthwhile taking this a bit further and discussing (here or in another thread) what software we all use and what we think it can do and/or not do and why we do/don't like it?

Chris I think this would be interesting, from a compositional stand point. There are other forums here that deal with the technical aspects - but actually reflecting on how (if at all) the design of the software effect how and what we compose.

I can also see it would be interesting as it would also reflect our general work-flow and bias depending on the way we work.
 
...but the points about software such as Jamstudio made me wonder yet again if I should get something similar.

Chris, Jamstudio is free to use online. It is not software, per se.

http://www.jamstudio.com

There is a $10 monthly fee if you want an all-access pass. That allows you to mix your backing tracks to mp3. Of course, you can record the stream for free, but the quality will be lower.

There is other software out there that is superior to Jamstudio, as others have mentioned. I concur.

Cheers,
Joseph
 
Thanks Joseph. That's handy info, I wasn't sure if what I had seen was a demo or a permanently available online thing or what. I just flitted in and out and didn't get as far as reading the details.

I have bookmarked it though, so I'll go back and give it another try. That's good to know what you get for the fee. It looked quick and straightforward from what I saw, but I now need to spend more time looking at these things in a bit more detail, instead of leaping around peering at all the choices and then darting off again....

I'm seriously considering banning myself from all forum posting, and internet access, for a month while I read the manuals and learn how to properly use some of the stuff I already do have installed or book marked.... :o

Cheers,

Chris
 
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