Help with new studio setup....<<noob>>

[formant74]

I know I may start a big argument here, but in all honesty, if you are still only starting out, do you really need a Mac? I've been using PC's for years and have had no problems. Plus if there is something I want to upgrade on, whether hardware or software, I have had no problems. That's is one of my biggest deterrents from buying a Mac or Apple, mostly for the hardware.
I see a lot of people buying Macs just because everyone else is buying them. Most of the recording software coming out now are dual compatible anyway.
(you really don't want my opinion about iPods).

 

[stepXinXtheXmix]

Good one.

I my opinion, the crap that you know makes FAR more difference than the crap that you use.

You are absolutely correct my friend....it's kinda like when you find a REAL deal guitarist or musician and they can make the most low end models of their instrument sound top shelf. I like your style!

On the whole Mac thing. I use both Mac and PC. I do a lot of graphic design and tiny bit of video production and in my opinion mac woops PC, for the most part. The reason I'm wanting it to be a mac based system is definitely not for the fact "The Jones' Studio" is using it across town. Not the case. I've recorded with my old bands on PC based studios and came out with a great sound. www.myspace.com/undertheredar (nothing wrong with some shameless promotion). But I definitely see where you're coming from with everyone wanting to be a "mac" person.

I have given Cubase a lot of thought. Still not decided on a DAW. I have went back and taken the sub out for now and started looking for better monitors.

 

[stepXinXtheXmix]

OK so I came across an Allen and Heath ZED-R16 firewire mixer. Do any of you know how these are? It's got a pretty hefty price tag but it seems like it could be a pretty good piece of equipment.

 

[pandamonk]

But since we're talking about this what are some pros and cons of both Reaper and Logic?

I'll start. The pro of reaper is it's cost. Another pro could be the size of the company. Because they are so small, you have a say in the product. This also allows a high development pace.

A con could be that, on mac, it appears to lag slightly behind the pc version. I don't really know that much about the mac version but, for the moment, they only have a beta mac version.

I found this thread on the reaper forums (could be biased). From that discussion it seems that Logic is great for Midi, but doesn't seem as good for audio recording. Also the routing on logic is limited compared to Reaper.

I think a lot of people are put of apple and digidesign because neither seems to care about customers needs any more, eg. 3rd party compatibility, and only about profits.

 

[pandamonk]

OK so I came across an Allen and Heath ZED-R16 firewire mixer. Do any of you know how these are? It's got a pretty hefty price tag but it seems like it could be a pretty good piece of equipment.

You seem to always be looking at mixing desks. You might be better of just getting an interface and maybe a control surface, or a control surface with interface built in.

I use the Tascam FW-1804 and plan to buy a digital mixer or control surface. Other options in this area, are the FW-1082 and FW-1884(i often wish i had bought this).

 

[stepXinXtheXmix]

You seem to always be looking at mixing desks.

Yeah, thats kinda where I start to get confused. I can understand having an analog hands-on desk mixer and then firewire to a DAW. So what you're saying is you can have a separate firewire interface and separate mixer?

Here are my absolute wants in whatever system i get. I want to be able to record a full drum kit....that's at least 11 inputs, kick, snare top, snare bot, tom1, tom2, tom3, hi hat, overh L, overh R, and 1 or 2 room mics. I can cut it back to 8 mics to get by because most of the interfaces i've found that are firewire capable only have up to 8 xlr inputs, so that limits me there. After drums are tracked, ever thing else will be simple. UNLESS I run into a situation where the drummer can't play with a click and scratch guitar and needs the whole band or something like that.

I guess there are just a lot of variables and I want to be sure to take them all into account, so I don't get stuck with equipment that I have to end up selling for less than what I bought it for.

 

[Hakea]

Yeah, thats kinda where I start to get confused. I can understand having an analog hands-on desk mixer and then firewire to a DAW. So what you're saying is you can have a separate firewire interface and separate mixer?

You don't necessarily need both. Is that where the confusion is?

Option 1:
I have a fairly basic mixer that records to itself. It has some nice sliders to push up and down and various knobs to twiddle. I can record, balance, add effects, mix, etc on that alone. No computer required. Some even have their own inbuilt CD burner. Like many others it can't be used to control the computer, but it could produce tracks that I could drag into some software and do more with if I really wanted to.

Option 2:
I also have Cubase on a computer. Now the position is reversed. All I need is an audio interface to get the sound in. I don't need any external sliders or knobs at all, I can do it 100% with a mouse, using the onscreen buttons and sliders, and effects in the computer. Provided I can keep time, I can do it one track at a time if necessary - even to the extent of playing the kick drum first, then the snare on another track, then the high hat and so on. I don't tend to go that far, but I could easily do so (on either Option1 or 2).

Option 3:
Half way between the two is to use the software on the computer but to use a 'control surface' as pandamonk says. This can look a bit like option 1 but is in fact just a way of giving you some physical knobs and sliders instead of working the onscreen ones with a mouse. Some folks like the look and feel of the knobs, others actually prefer the mouse. A purpose built control surface is just that - a way of controlling software.

I'm happy to be corrected, but that's how I see it anyway. I'm definitely no expert, but as far as i know there is some crossover (some units can function in more than one way) but you do need to be clear what you're buying and how you'll use it.

Good luck with the search.

 

[KineticSound]

Random Thoughts...

I'll put in another vote for Logic. I have Logic 8 and love it. Nothing against Reaper - it's a great program, too - but Logic is so powerful and has such an amazing suite of plugins, software instruments, and edit capabilities that it's hard not to love it. The Express version is plenty for most folks, and you can always upgrade to Pro if you find you run out of loops and instruments.

As others have mentioned, the BX8's have absolutely no need for a sub. I also have a pair of these myself and wish I had waited for a set of Tannoy's or even just opted for KRK's instead. You can get by with the BX8's, but there are better options out there in the same price range. (Don't get caught up in the 8" woofer hype.)

Someone mentioned the FW-1082. This is my portal to Logic - works great & Logic has the template built-in.

Lastly, your shopping list makes no mention of acoustic treatments. Just like expertise on your equipment, all the gear in the world means squat if your room doesn't sound good. Make sure you keep acoustic treatment options on your radar.

 

[KineticSound]

I have a fairly basic mixer that records to itself. It has some nice sliders to push up and down and various knobs to twiddle. I can record, balance, add effects, mix, etc on that alone. No computer required. Some even have their own inbuilt CD burner.

This is a standalone DAW. Happens to have a mixer section built-in, but it's first and foremost a multi-track recorder.

Half way between the two is to use the software on the computer but to use a 'control surface' as pandamonk says. This can look a bit like option 1 but is in fact just a way of giving you some physical knobs and sliders instead of working the onscreen ones with a mouse. Some folks like the look and feel of the knobs, others actually prefer the mouse. A purpose built control surface is just that - a way of controlling software.

...as far as i know there is some crossover (some units can function in more than one way) but you do need to be clear what you're buying and how you'll use it.

Exactly what the TASCAM FW-1082 is... It's a control surface, meaning that using it like a mixer controls the software mixer within Logic, Cubase, etc. It's also an audio interface. It has mic preamps, digital in's and out's, MIDI in's and out's, etc. When you feed a signal into one of it's preamps, your DAW can read the incoming signal directly. It's really the best of both worlds, and much less expensive than most standalone mixers with FireWire interfaces.

 

[stepXinXtheXmix]

awesome....that really does clear up alot....I've been doing some research on acoustic treatment....It's definitely part of the package, I just didn't think about putting it in there. Thanks again guys!

 

[pandamonk]

Yeah, thats kinda where I start to get confused. I can understand having an analog hands-on desk mixer and then firewire to a DAW. So what you're saying is you can have a separate firewire interface and separate mixer?

Here are my absolute wants in whatever system i get. I want to be able to record a full drum kit....that's at least 11 inputs, kick, snare top, snare bot, tom1, tom2, tom3, hi hat, overh L, overh R, and 1 or 2 room mics. I can cut it back to 8 mics to get by because most of the interfaces i've found that are firewire capable only have up to 8 xlr inputs, so that limits me there. After drums are tracked, ever thing else will be simple. UNLESS I run into a situation where the drummer can't play with a click and scratch guitar and needs the whole band or something like that.

I guess there are just a lot of variables and I want to be sure to take them all into account, so I don't get stuck with equipment that I have to end up selling for less than what I bought it for.

Well you can have an analogue desk into an interface then into the daw, or you can do with a mixer and just have an interface. If you like hands-on mixing, then you can get a control surface. Some control surfaces come with the interface built in.

An analogue mixer is not the best way to mix down, imo. A control surface allows you to move things on screen, including faders, pan, etc. which analogue doesn't allow.